• overcast5348@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    9
    ·
    8 months ago

    In a former workplace, we had a process that was close enough to what’s recommended in the blog, and it worked well. Really well even, there were hardly any ego clashes, everyone would negotiate a consensus and we had “spike” tasks in our sprints so that we can take the time to think about and research complex problems.

    And then the fire nation attacked…

    A director left the firm and they hired someone from Amazon. He said that we should have a “bias for action”, and got rid of this process, and a lot of other stuff we had going for ourselves using other such catch phrases.

    Getting him as a director was probably the worst thing to happen as we were under pressure to deliver stuff quickly all the time, and we’d then have to rework most of the shit because of missed requirements, or tools used not being insufficient for the task at hand etc. He was okay with it though, because “we delivered (shit) quickly”, and “our efficiency went up as indicated by the team velocity charts”.

    Pretty much the entire team had left the company in ~1.5 years, and customer satisfaction metrics were in the gutter when I left.

    I don’t know if he misunderstood “bias for action” and implemented it badly or if that’s genuinely how people at Amazon operate, but I won’t even think of joining AWS. Fuck that noise.

    • vitonsky@programming.devOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      8 months ago

      Exactly! I see how a mindset “we delivered (shit) quickly” successfully reproduces itself, over and over in a lot of companies.

      I think the actual reason is that business want to make money on promises right here right now. Business promises a lot of features to investors give money, and then business implement a lot of (shit) features. And then they continue kinda “okay, features broken, give us more money and we will fix it”.

  • Oliver Lowe@apubtest2.srcbeat.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    8 months ago

    Getting stuff down in writing is a good step; crucial for sure. But the process/ritual of decision logs doesn’t necessarily get you great analysis or effective outcomes. Two stories:

    … or if your team uses arguments such as “let’s use X because Microsoft uses it too”, “let’s do X because everyone else does”, or “I used it in my previous project and it worked well, so let’s use it here too” then your decisions are likely suboptimal in the long term.

    I’ve read decision logs and design docs that have included this kind of reasoning. Many meetings, everyone gets their say, it’s all written down. One time, I arrived a year or two into a project and I could indeed see how exactly they came to the decision that they did. The problem was that the reasoning was super weak. Over-emphasis on process, little on problem solving skills.

    Other teams I’ve been on were fantastic problem solvers but super sloppy. If the right people were around, in the same room, they could solve things more cleanly in a fraction of the time of some company 10x the size. But for new staff, or if those key people were not around: chaos!

    I guess my conclusion is that effective decision-making comes down to balancing a whole bunch of different behaviour.

    In short: software is tricky.

    • vitonsky@programming.devOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      8 months ago

      Sure, decision logs is just a step to fix a problems with decision making. Logs highlight a problems in decision making process and let you analyze a problems in your team. You still need an strong architect who may say “hey team, why your arguments so weak? it looks you are low skill engineers. make arguments more objective, or you will be fired” and then really fire weak engineers in team.

      • Oliver Lowe@apubtest2.srcbeat.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        8 months ago

        Logs highlight a problems in decision making process and let you analyze a problems in your team.

        Yeah good point.

        In that process-heavy project I joined, I could quickly see the problems; about 2 or 3 days. That meant when I was submitting code or reviewing the backlog I knew what kind of challenges I could make, and what would just be a waste of time. In others, it could take way longer - months! - to learn how the team actually deals with challenges and design.

  • Ategon@programming.devM
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    8 months ago

    If anyone still sees messages from the spammer in the comments let me know, federated removals are wonky sometimes

  • PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    8 months ago

    I can’t say what their corporate culture is like now, but they’ve had a pretty poor reputation in the past, including the notion that the lowest performing 10% should be fired every year. The Amazon folks I’ve known have been great people - not at all the Gordon Gecko types you’d imagine from that - but culture in large corporations varies a lot by the team you’re in.

    I came up with a saying back in the 90s when I was doing the startup scene - “Do you want it right, or by Tuesday?” Sometimes they do indeed need it by Tuesday. More of the time they have no idea why you need the extra days to get it right. But it’s really important for those in a leadership position - whether they’re managers or senior engineers - to push back and set expectations.

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    SEETHE FUCK FLOYD SUCK CITY SLICKER CLEAN IT UP SEETHE I CAN’T HOT POCKETS JANNY ON LEMMY FOR FREE COPE CHUCK’S SEETHE SNEED SNEED’S ON LEMMY SEETHE CHUCK DILATE SUCK HOT POCKETS FOR FREE CLEAN IT UP HOT POCKETS ON LEMMY HOT POCKETS DILATE JANNIES HOT POCKETS HOT POCKETS DILATE SNEED SUCK JANNIES I CAN’T FLOYD CHUCK DILATE HOT POCKETS DILATE FUCK CITY SLICKER SNEED’S JANNIES FUCK SEETHE FOR FREE SEETHE

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    I CAN’T FOR FREE JANNY SNEED’S SEETHE FLOYD SNEED’S I CAN’T FLOYD DILATE ON LEMMY JANNIES CHUCK I CAN’T FLOYD COPE SEETHE HOT POCKETS I CAN’T FEED FUCK I CAN’T ON LEMMY SNEED’S SEETHE HOT POCKETS SEED SNEED’S FEED FUCK SEED SEETHE SEED COPE AND FOR FREE CHUCK’S DILATE SNEED AND JANNY SUCK CHUCK’S CLEAN IT UP I CAN’T COPE I CAN’T FLOYD CHUCK’S DILATE

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    FOR FREE CLEAN IT UP FUCK CLEAN IT UP AND SNEED CHUCK ON LEMMY CLEAN IT UP CLEAN IT UP FEED FLOYD COPE SEED DILATE CHUCK’S SEED CLEAN IT UP CLEAN IT UP AND CHUCK’S JANNY FUCK SEED FEED CHUCK’S SNEED’S ON LEMMY CLEAN IT UP FUCK SUCK SUCK JANNY SUCK CHUCK I CAN’T CITY SLICKER JANNIES JANNY SEED SNEED’S JANNIES FOR FREE FLOYD SNEED’S DILATE FUCK HOT POCKETS SNEED SUCK

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    CLEAN IT UP FOR FREE JANNY ON LEMMY SUCK CITY SLICKER FLOYD DILATE JANNIES CHUCK’S SEED DILATE CLEAN IT UP JANNIES SNEED DILATE HOT POCKETS JANNIES JANNY ON LEMMY SNEED HOT POCKETS SUCK SNEED JANNY CHUCK FOR FREE I CAN’T HOT POCKETS CLEAN IT UP CHUCK FUCK JANNIES CHUCK SNEED’S JANNIES FUCK CLEAN IT UP HOT POCKETS I CAN’T HOT POCKETS ON LEMMY SEETHE FEED JANNIES FLOYD FEED SNEED SUCK HOT POCKETS

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    JANNY SNEED SUCK JANNY DILATE SEED FEED HOT POCKETS FOR FREE CHUCK’S FEED FOR FREE DILATE CHUCK ON LEMMY FUCK SEETHE HOT POCKETS FEED AND CHUCK JANNY FOR FREE ON LEMMY SNEED’S CLEAN IT UP JANNIES DILATE CITY SLICKER SUCK CHUCK’S ON LEMMY AND CLEAN IT UP FEED FOR FREE SNEED’S CHUCK JANNY SNEED’S CLEAN IT UP FLOYD FEED CITY SLICKER JANNIES FLOYD JANNIES JANNIES CHUCK’S SEED

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    CITY SLICKER FLOYD SUCK CLEAN IT UP JANNIES CHUCK’S DILATE FUCK DILATE I CAN’T FOR FREE JANNY JANNIES SEETHE FLOYD AND DILATE FUCK CITY SLICKER SEED SEETHE JANNIES CLEAN IT UP FUCK FOR FREE SEED CHUCK CITY SLICKER CLEAN IT UP JANNIES SEETHE SEED DILATE SUCK FEED HOT POCKETS CHUCK’S SNEED CHUCK’S CLEAN IT UP FLOYD CHUCK I CAN’T FUCK SNEED’S COPE JANNY JANNY JANNIES CHUCK’S

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    CLEAN IT UP CLEAN IT UP SEED CLEAN IT UP HOT POCKETS SEETHE SNEED FOR FREE DILATE SNEED’S FOR FREE SNEED’S FUCK CHUCK’S DILATE HOT POCKETS I CAN’T JANNY DILATE CLEAN IT UP HOT POCKETS DILATE JANNIES FEED DILATE JANNIES DILATE I CAN’T JANNIES I CAN’T I CAN’T DILATE SNEED SUCK SNEED I CAN’T FOR FREE CITY SLICKER SUCK SEED ON LEMMY JANNY FLOYD SNEED SEETHE FUCK SUCK ON LEMMY SEED HOT POCKETS

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    CHUCK ON LEMMY FEED FEED SUCK HOT POCKETS DILATE SUCK COPE SEED FEED COPE HOT POCKETS FLOYD CHUCK’S SEETHE SNEED’S CHUCK I CAN’T JANNY CHUCK’S AND FUCK CITY SLICKER HOT POCKETS SEETHE CHUCK JANNY DILATE SNEED SNEED JANNY SNEED’S FEED FEED FLOYD JANNIES DILATE CLEAN IT UP SEETHE COPE JANNY ON LEMMY AND FEED JANNIES I CAN’T CHUCK’S DILATE I CAN’T

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    CITY SLICKER SEETHE COPE SNEED AND DILATE CITY SLICKER CLEAN IT UP SEETHE CLEAN IT UP COPE SEED HOT POCKETS FUCK I CAN’T CLEAN IT UP SUCK FUCK ON LEMMY JANNY FLOYD ON LEMMY SUCK SEETHE HOT POCKETS CITY SLICKER DILATE ON LEMMY SEETHE SEED SEETHE CLEAN IT UP SEETHE CLEAN IT UP JANNIES SEED FLOYD FLOYD FLOYD CLEAN IT UP SNEED CLEAN IT UP JANNY JANNIES FEED CLEAN IT UP CHUCK CHUCK CLEAN IT UP I CAN’T

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    CHUCK’S JANNIES JANNY JANNIES CITY SLICKER I CAN’T ON LEMMY DILATE JANNIES HOT POCKETS CHUCK CITY SLICKER FUCK HOT POCKETS SEETHE JANNY FEED FOR FREE I CAN’T I CAN’T JANNY CITY SLICKER HOT POCKETS SEETHE COPE SNEED JANNY HOT POCKETS CHUCK’S ON LEMMY CLEAN IT UP ON LEMMY CHUCK’S FLOYD FLOYD SEETHE JANNY SNEED CLEAN IT UP SEED JANNY FLOYD AND SUCK FUCK JANNIES ON LEMMY DILATE HOT POCKETS SUCK

  • ThuleanPerspective2@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    CHUCK’S SNEED JANNIES FEED AND FLOYD FOR FREE SNEED’S FEED SNEED’S SNEED’S SUCK FOR FREE FOR FREE HOT POCKETS CHUCK’S AND COPE SNEED’S SNEED SEED JANNIES FUCK CHUCK JANNIES CITY SLICKER FEED FLOYD COPE CHUCK CHUCK DILATE JANNIES FEED CHUCK AND CHUCK’S CITY SLICKER SEETHE FEED CHUCK CHUCK’S SEETHE AND FOR FREE SUCK CITY SLICKER HOT POCKETS CHUCK’S DILATE