Currently downvotes are enabled on a trial basis, this was done by me to see if they can be enabled to prevent spam from rising to the top of communities, along with the fact that is another form of interaction/feedback.
However I’ve gotten some pushback for this and so I’d like to see the general consensus of this decision. Please put any comments/concerns in this thread, and please vote here: https://forms.gle/zqDxemJCiTAXJi5i9
the results of this poll and the comments will determine if we keep or remove downvotes again
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When is a decision expected?
Probably about a week, just to make sure everyone is able to see the poll
A poll isn’t a good way to decide this. Regular posters suffer from downvotes more than others, and they drive our community. Their opinion should count for more.
Currently three regular posters have complained about it:
- Radovic
- Cleverhans
- LVL3_Eroticism.
Yes I definitely understand that, that’s why the comments here and the poll are being taken into consideration
To be quite frank, I don’t know why you’re even doing this. We had a discussion about it last year and all the same points were raised after which you turned them off, only to turn them on and have another debate a few weeks later and you then had to turn them off again. I think you know that you will probably have to turn them off again at some point. So how about you level with us, what is it about downvotes that you find so compelling?
The stated reason is spam. We’ve been getting a lot of that recently, so I get admins are looking for a way to deal with it. But the spam is being upvoted, so I don’t think it’s working.
Yeah this time spam. This is admin Yay talking about it last year:
Some people found it right, some people hated it, some people hesitated. At the end of the day, since we are on a disorganised platform like fediverse, I find the decision we took right. However, I was also annoyed by the lack of downvotes. So I searched for a solution.
https://lemmynsfw.com/post/4962186
Then he said this a few months later:
As you may notice, downvotes have been completely off for the last few days. I did this because I couldn’t resist the pressure of some friends :/ I still don’t know what to do about this. The majority of members probably want it to be completely open. As mods, posters and admins; some think it should be closed, some think it should be restricted (I guess).
I guess there is no solution that makes everyone happy. I realized I don’t have admin skills in stressful situations, I’m a fucking stupid lol :D I miss @gabe so much.
lemmyposter212 suggested “fuzzy votes” or something that can work for us too. I think I’ll just ghost this issue for a while.
https://lemmynsfw.com/post/7152586
“Annoyed by the lack” and “:/” sounds like the admins just want downvotes. Well, it is their instance and they will have what they want.
Downvotes can be a useful tool to shape a community, the issue comes in when several people start downvoting communities they don’t even participate in. Which is one of the main issues brought up here.
It may seem very clear to you that “no one” wants downvotes, but as an admin I get complaints for basically every decision made on this site, so what is the “right” choice is sometimes hard to determine. I’ve been getting complaints about downvotes being disabled for awhile now, so it wasn’t clear to me. Even now, the opinion is still very split. Which is why I enabled them quietly to see if it would cause any issues. It did, so I made this post to see if people think the issues created by downvotes outweigh the benefits, and what peoples’ other opinions about them are.
This is my opinion based on what I’ve read and the results of the poll: I think at a later time when lemmynsfw is larger, downvotes may be viable, especially if lemmy implements a custom home feed so that not everyone sees the same posts. This would help mitigate the issue of people not in communities downvoting posts. But as it stands, I’m leaning towards disabling them again. Frequent posters, which are kind of needed for this site to survive, don’t seem to like them, and the poll is split almost 50/50. I have to try to balance enjoyability of posting and enjoyability of consuming content on the site, and it just seems like downvotes really hurts posters and only marginally helps consumers.
I’m leaving the poll up for a few more days and am going to continue to read the comments, but, if nothing changes, that’s probably what’s going to happen.
All this seems very fair. I’m under no illusion as to the popularity of downvotes, I would say that damn near all of them want to be able to downvote.
The question I have asked you and have asked @CombedSpaghetti is what motivates me or any of your other regular posters to post when they know that all their efforts can be nullified, for any reason you can think of, by someone pushing a button at the wrong moment.
And you can’t. Not unless you cut us in on that sweet crypto action 😜
Like I said I understand what you’re saying, my answer is it’s not always as simple as doing something that makes one group of people happy, I have to weigh the options, which is why I made this post.
Also, I don’t get paid to do this, they crypto money goes 100% to paying for hosting the site to my knowledge. All the admins have day jobs.
I know this is an incredibly divisive topic and I don’t envy the position this puts admin in. For what it’s worth, I appreciate that you’re trying to make it work and involving the community in the process.
Downvotes are a useful tool to shape a community and help with moderation, but with the size of the active posting population as well as the broad reach for posts across the greater Fediverse downvotes don’t lend well to fostering the human element. It’s fine to have them with a larger active community where people can form their own content bubbles, but pretty much anything that’s posted here ends up at the top of local for a few hours and is going to get a lot of eyes on it that may not enjoy the premise of the community. You’ll have no posts to downvote after the community has chased away anyone who posts though.
With Yiffit, pornlemmy, and now Lemmyf.uk all shut down this is the only dedicated nsfw instance left that I’m aware of. It honestly just seems like Lemmy in general is hostile to nsfw content.
Downvotes are good, just as good as upvotes, having it one sided defeats the entire purpose of voting.
Everything just being upvoted is a terrible idea and you can see the negative impacts it already has in other places of the internet.
I think a lot of responses were correlating downvotes with censorship which is something I can agree with. I personally don’t want to see someone’s dick in gonewild but I know it’s for someone. Maybe we can have a tagging system that user can filter what they don’t want to see. But I don’t care if downvotes comes back or stays away because I’ll just block the accounts that shows things I don’t want to see.
I’ve just counted 100 communities I had to block to get a semi interesting “local” feed, in addition to 7 posters who were really not my taste. How many hentai/anime communities are really needed for example? So yes, downvoting makes sense as long as there is a local feed, that’s how lemmy works.
And yes, I have witnessed a clear improvement since downvotes are back.
Good job, a few saved posts from my saved list have been replaced by blanks. And who can blame the ones who did it? (Many will, considering these did get a bit of abusive words despite doing some good things). This place has become a place to debate and argue rather than have a good jerk. Ha! Just what was needed.
Being a bit of a dick is normal, so it is tolerated, and opinions are given importance, these dickheads are given respect for abusing the very ones who made this place work. What’s next now? Enforcing moderation on those who answer back to them? It is the norm in the more corporate forums so I—would—not—be—surprised—at—all. Good job all.
Hehe… who could’ve seen this coming. The majority of good willing people here couldn’t, how surprising🫢 If the world had more silent thinking (which is my style) and less debating (which was how things were before this slight seemingly insignificant change, a change which incited the question of whether each posting itself was right or wrong), these things wouldn’t happen… but it is not the place of idiots like me to interrupt the legitimate high-placed people of the world from shooting their own feet so… carry on. It is amusing in itself. I’ll start a casual bet (smiles on wager, so the world benefits from it) on just how much everyone among these well intentioned ones choose to ignore the results out of embarrassment. I say the majority will be too embarrassed to even talk about it again, as if it never happened, and try to shut down anyone who references it for being ‘incorrect’ or 'wrong’😁 Better yet, some will blame and insult the few posters who deleted everything. That will definitely happen.
How ironic is it that for the sake of arguing for good quality posts, you would drive away the posters of some of the best quality posts💀
Yes I can clearly see this more about girls… and Sex Doll stuff aren’t a niche here it was worth checking this place out though I wish your site luck Reddit and Internet has become to damn soft in general people are just ridiculous nowadays it’s kinda sad 🤷🤦♀️
I’d want it enabled only for people who are subbed to the community in question. That solves practically all issues.
Was tried before. Didn’t work.
Maybe it’s just me, but after enabled I seem to get much higher quality content on the local page.
Nope. I’m seeing male posters getting downvoted, which sucks. Everyone should be welcome in all communities unless the community states otherwise or a post is off-topic.
Yeah, just filter stuff you don’t wanna see. There’s a person behind the post you’re downvoting
Every downvote on pro-downvote comments should count as a vote for re-enabling. Clearly they’re okay with downvotes, at least when it suits them haha
If 10 people downvote 10 pro-downvote comments, your algorithm would count that as 100 votes against downvotes. Didn’t think that one through, did ya?
Shoot you found the flaw in my system.
I changed my mind. I was pro downvote but I just looked at the new community list, saw one I liked, and then saw that a lot of the posts that fit the theme just fine have been downvoted for no reason. The mod is clearly upset about it also.
So yeah, please turn downvotes back off.
Yes that’s how reddit is that’s the issue people just downvote a lot for things they don’t like hivemind like as well. YouTube is different from this as the videos arent NSFW Sex. That’s why the block and report is more useful, also a lot of my posts would technically be negative 6 at the moment and all I do is fuck a sex doll I understand I don’t have a vagina and u might not like my content but just block me
How do you know that there was no reason behind the downvotes?
True. I mean no discernable reason.
I can see a lot of pros and cons, and I don’t think we can know what is best without a longer-term trial. There’ll be some trolling and harassment that comes with it, which is really bad, but also it allows user filtering of spam and junk posts, which is good. Hopefully there’s less of the former and more of the latter.
No downvotes. People use it as a “this isn’t my fetish” button and everything even slightly niche gets sent to oblivion. Especially bad for gonewild posts where people’s self image gets involved.
Also using a Google doc for this poll seems like a bad idea since people who aren’t from this instance can vote
You are using “some people misuse a thing” as a rationale to get rid of the thing.
If someone posts fetish x on a vanilla community, they should get downvoted. If they post that same thing in a community about fetish x, then the community can simply be blocked by those so inclined.
This is the important part:
Especially bad for gonewild posts where people’s self image gets involved.
We don’t need a “go away, you’re ugly” button. That’s what blocking is for.
Hm… what if downvoting was weighted only 1/10th as much as upvoting? So a few downvotes here and there from people doing it wrong wouldn’t amount to anything in others’ view, but if a post is heavily downvoted due to being in the wrong community or low effort, that’s visible?
Maybe? I dunno. Turning off downvotes seems like a pretty simple solution. Trying to come up with complex ways to make it hurt just the right amount doesn’t seem like it’ll work in all cases.
It’s called fine-tuning, and if everyone gave up that easily, many domains would suffer, like medicine, architecture, manufacturing design etc. Don’t be afraid of something simply because the ideal fix is more complicated than 2+2.
by that same logic a use that sees content they don’t like on a community they do can block that user.
is there a problem with content being posted that doesn’t match communities right now? i haven’t noticed one. the biggest problem on this platform right now is lack of content. downvotes, or any tool for creating explicit negative social interaction or feedback can make a community more hostile and less inviting. right now i generally see almost no posts on any nsfw communities that should get downvotes that don’t just get taken care of by a moderator. right now we need to draw people in to posting content way way more than we need better tools to organize it.
the biggest problem on this platform right now is lack of content. downvotes, or any tool for creating explicit negative social interaction or feedback can make a community more hostile and less inviting.
Exactly this. We don’t have enough content to give users the tools to discourage posting.
Believing that fetishes should be separated in their own corners and downvoted otherwise is an excellent reason to not have downvotes - or to just not post content in this instance anymore
Separating things into their own corner is literally the point of subs.
Unless a community explicitly has a rule excluding content, and the uploads are valid there, downvoting something just because you’re not into it just seems like entitlement to me. Its the same “reasoning” people use to get gay content outside of Rule34 or other general boards, because they find it “icky” (of course none of these people complain about lesbian content)
Having to enumerate every single rule on a sub would be horrific and more importantly preference can’t be written into rules. What a community likes and doesnt like is based on the voting system, thats the fundamental point of Lemmy and reddit.
Thinking you can post whatever you want and expect all the exposure without regards to a communities tastes just because it doesnt explicitly violate rules is entitlement.
Seems like the divide is between people who actually contribute to this instance and post content, versus those who don’t and want to decide what get seen or not. Question, when we are gone, are you going to start posting? Will you create and moderate communities? Or are you going to keep sitting and expecting poster to cater to your tastes?
Its pretty rich to sit on your ass, makes demands and still call others entitled.
I posted when this instance first started and there was nearly nothing. So yeah I would and did. I didnt complain about the down votes and wasnt demanding up votes either.
I’m entitled to nothing, posts or votes. You are entitled to nothing as well.
If they post that same thing in a community about fetish x, then the community can simply be blocked by those so inclined.
The problem is the majority of people don’t actually do that. They just downvote it to oblivion. That’s a significant part of why they were turned off in the first place.
If they post that same thing in a community about fetish x, then the community can simply be blocked by those so inclined.
Yes, they could. But that’s not what’s going to happen.
Yes I like having downvotes. I use downvotes to notice trends of spam so I can better identify who to report/block.
That site sabotages the back button, fyi.
the downvote disabling feature never worked as intended. It only blocks lemmynsfw accounts from downvoting anything, lemmynsfw or otherwise. THIS account could already downvote anything federated
Sure but those of us on lemmynsfw can’t see them.
Ok. I generally like being able to see things.
You could downvote from another account but it wouldn’t be federated and tallied for anything but your home instance.
I don’t see much reason to have them. Others have spoken of helping with spam. I haven’t noticed any spam on this instance.
You haven’t seen the new posters that suddenly show up, drop the same 2 pics in about 40 different places, then never post again?
Oh sure but I wouldn’t have considered that spam I guess.
I see a handful that have upvotes.
Yes
