The problems start to happen when buisnesses adopt this en masse. Expect all banks to implement this for example. You can use Firefox all you want, but then you won’t be able to do online banking.
Standards are really fucking important to help people stay functional in a society. This is one area that the ANCAP mindset just gets it totally wrong, unless you like the idea of being a hermit.
Anyway, we are already seeing some websites basically reject browsers like Firefox because they basically give the consumer too much protection and freedom. Arguably we’ve seen this before, but this may be a new tier of corporate lockout of open standards as consumer protection gets thrown in the trash. Thanks America.
This needs to be pinned at the top of every single threat about this. Far too many people are just saying “Well I’ll just keep using Firefox”. They do not understand the gravity of the issue.
Firefox only exists because it’s primarily funded by Google. It’s funded by Google to ensure they actually have some competition and avoid becoming a Monopoly.
If they kill Firefox or otherwise make it unusable they’ll be shooting themselves in the foot.
However, if it ends up being a bad experience that no one wants to use, well that’s not on them and they have no responsibility to fix it.
What will likely happen is Firefox will also adopt this DRM.
Mozilla does not exist because of Google. Google doesn’t have controlling power over Mozilla, nor do they have power over the many forks. It’s hilarious that you think a company would give a shit about being a monopoly; that’s what they strive for. This stupid take has been going around for years, and I’m sad to see it spread to Lemmy.
Oh, you. I remember you from another thread the other week, saying how Chromium is not Chrome and that this would never happen. Hi. It is happening. Also, I remember telling you to stop moving goalposts, which is what you are doing here.
Microsoft would be happy to pay Firefox to set Bing as default (has happened in the past already) so even your goalpost moving is moot.
The issue isn’t that we have no alternative, it’s that this feature will basically eliminate those alternatives sadly. You can read more about it here if you haven’t, but it’s bad.
For sure, I agree and it’s bad. But frankly unsurprising. This is the trajectory of the internet: greater control.
We’ve become too dependent on centralized tech companies and erred in allowing tech companies to change, define, and control the internet in the first place.
When websites start blocking clients that don’t implement the wei handshake, you’ll be forced to use one that does if you want to visit those sites. Firefox will either adopt it or become a second rate browser.
I wish that this kind of thing would generate enough outrage to increase Firefox’ market share considerably (from the <3% it is today), and in that way deter websites from adopting it since they would block a larger share of users. Unfortunately, I think that might be too naive of me…
Most banking apps don’t work on rooted Android phones. It’s not the same, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that at least these companies would force their customers to use specific software…
And I use my root to hide my root from my banking app… Idk about the implementation details of this, but I kinda think the same could happen here as well.
This is the problem for me. If my bank or other critical institution decides to refuse me access with Firefox, I can’t use Firefox. This is the crux of the issue. Google is creating a browser monopoly with it’s market dominance and attestation scheme.
MS tried to exert control in the early 2000’s with its IE dominance and was thwarted by an anti-trust lawsuit. Google will probably skate on this one. Nowadays the consumer is only a resource to be plundered. The customer is shit.
As pointed out above, individual use of Firefox doesn’t really do that much. Especially when Firefox already doesn’t work properly for some sites. Plus, lots of people (myself included) need to use Chrome for work. This shit sucks.
I use it daily. It’s my default browser, but it ain’t perfect. Most recently, it was an interactive map for Diablo IV that would never work on Firefox. After an update it started working, but that’s just the most recent example.
it is pretty rare for issues like that to happen. and just keep a chromium based browser installed for the 0.2% of websites with compatibility problems or whatever.
I’m do not experience any of these improper working sites. My daily driver is Librewolf, where this sometimes occur, but when it does, I just switch to vanilla Firefox, and everything is fine.
hey everyone a friendly reminder that alternatives exist, and just drop this shit fast and move to better alternatives. In this case firefox.
The problems start to happen when buisnesses adopt this en masse. Expect all banks to implement this for example. You can use Firefox all you want, but then you won’t be able to do online banking.
Standards are really fucking important to help people stay functional in a society. This is one area that the ANCAP mindset just gets it totally wrong, unless you like the idea of being a hermit.
Anyway, we are already seeing some websites basically reject browsers like Firefox because they basically give the consumer too much protection and freedom. Arguably we’ve seen this before, but this may be a new tier of corporate lockout of open standards as consumer protection gets thrown in the trash. Thanks America.
If my bank does this I’ll take my custom to a smaller one that doesn’t.
I don’t think they will though, since they gave me a hardware thingy to login to my online banking from my rooted android 🫠
This needs to be pinned at the top of every single threat about this. Far too many people are just saying “Well I’ll just keep using Firefox”. They do not understand the gravity of the issue.
I don’t think that checks out.
Firefox only exists because it’s primarily funded by Google. It’s funded by Google to ensure they actually have some competition and avoid becoming a Monopoly.
If they kill Firefox or otherwise make it unusable they’ll be shooting themselves in the foot.
However, if it ends up being a bad experience that no one wants to use, well that’s not on them and they have no responsibility to fix it.
What will likely happen is Firefox will also adopt this DRM.
Mozilla does not exist because of Google. Google doesn’t have controlling power over Mozilla, nor do they have power over the many forks. It’s hilarious that you think a company would give a shit about being a monopoly; that’s what they strive for. This stupid take has been going around for years, and I’m sad to see it spread to Lemmy.
They give a shit about not being a monopoly because if they were, they’d be broken up so they’re not one anymore. At least currently still.
Oh, you. I remember you from another thread the other week, saying how Chromium is not Chrome and that this would never happen. Hi. It is happening. Also, I remember telling you to stop moving goalposts, which is what you are doing here.
Microsoft would be happy to pay Firefox to set Bing as default (has happened in the past already) so even your goalpost moving is moot.
Come on, wake up.
deleted by creator
The issue isn’t that we have no alternative, it’s that this feature will basically eliminate those alternatives sadly. You can read more about it here if you haven’t, but it’s bad.
For sure, I agree and it’s bad. But frankly unsurprising. This is the trajectory of the internet: greater control.
We’ve become too dependent on centralized tech companies and erred in allowing tech companies to change, define, and control the internet in the first place.
Alternatives must be promoted in mass scale.
When websites start blocking clients that don’t implement the wei handshake, you’ll be forced to use one that does if you want to visit those sites. Firefox will either adopt it or become a second rate browser.
For now, Mozilla’s official stance is to oppose this proposal: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/852#issuecomment-1648820747
I wish that this kind of thing would generate enough outrage to increase Firefox’ market share considerably (from the <3% it is today), and in that way deter websites from adopting it since they would block a larger share of users. Unfortunately, I think that might be too naive of me…
You require Chrome or a Chromium based browser to view this comment.
Websites should be able to block me. I can just go elsewhere.
May be a bit problematic with banks, insurances and maybe government institutions…
it will truly be messed up if essential websites block user access because of this
Most banking apps don’t work on rooted Android phones. It’s not the same, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that at least these companies would force their customers to use specific software…
And I use my root to hide my root from my banking app… Idk about the implementation details of this, but I kinda think the same could happen here as well.
This is the problem for me. If my bank or other critical institution decides to refuse me access with Firefox, I can’t use Firefox. This is the crux of the issue. Google is creating a browser monopoly with it’s market dominance and attestation scheme.
MS tried to exert control in the early 2000’s with its IE dominance and was thwarted by an anti-trust lawsuit. Google will probably skate on this one. Nowadays the consumer is only a resource to be plundered. The customer is shit.
As pointed out above, individual use of Firefox doesn’t really do that much. Especially when Firefox already doesn’t work properly for some sites. Plus, lots of people (myself included) need to use Chrome for work. This shit sucks.
Have you used Firefox recently? I haven’t had even one instance of a website not working simply because of Firefox.
I use it daily. It’s my default browser, but it ain’t perfect. Most recently, it was an interactive map for Diablo IV that would never work on Firefox. After an update it started working, but that’s just the most recent example.
it is pretty rare for issues like that to happen. and just keep a chromium based browser installed for the 0.2% of websites with compatibility problems or whatever.
for work purposes, ok fine. but personal purposes i’d try and steer clear as much as i can.
My general point is we should use alternatives whenever possible to discourage this kind of centralized power developing in the first place.
I’m do not experience any of these improper working sites. My daily driver is Librewolf, where this sometimes occur, but when it does, I just switch to vanilla Firefox, and everything is fine.