The ‘job killers’ argument is kinda bullshit. I want to kill jobs - I want to eliminate all labor that can be automated, such that in the ideal perfect future, no human ever has to work; they can spend every moment doing things they enjoy without worry.
But self checkout is not automation. No human work has been eliminated. It is the same exact fucking checkout process, only now the customer does it instead, and the store doesn’t pay the cashier. And no they don’t pass that savings on to you because of course they don’t, they just pocket the difference.
That’s all true, but just to be a bit nitpicky I’d argue some human work has indeed been eliminated by self checkout.
Cashiers main job is to scan your stuff, but in order to do that they also have to stand around waiting for you and other customers for hours on end, and when you arrive they have to do emotional labor of acting cheerful and upbeat
Still I wish we didn’t live in a society where increased efficiency leads to people being homeless with no jobs.
they have to do emotional labor of acting cheerful and upbeat
This seems like a choice. I worked as stocker and would fill in on the register when people went to lunch. I didn’t put on any kind of act, I just scanned their stuff and took their money. Someone told me I was like a robot.
There’s at the very least a lot of social and managerial pressure to act cheerful. Even if you didn’t do it, many people would because it’s effectively required of them. Something being technically a choice doesn’t remove the social pressures that make many feel that it’s not a choice. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s been used as rationale to fire people before, which means that for some, it isn’t a choice (and most people are scared of losing their jobs, so won’t try to find out).
In tipped roles, it would definitely result in less pay.
I can’t think of the last time someone working a register was anything more than polite. 99.9% of the time, we don’t speak in any meaningful way. Their work neither adds value to nor takes value from my day. Which, to be clear, makes me want their jobs to be much, much better. At least give them something to sit on, for goodness sake.
I tried to use it as a means to get off the register. I hated it. I told my manager people think I’m a robot and shouldn’t be up there, but they just told me to play along and make robot voices and movements. I did not.
They weren’t going to fire me. I was working for minimum wage and the only person they had they didn’t steal shit on a daily basis.
With normal checkout the customer is still the one putting groceries on the belt, and in most cases putting the bags back into the cart. Hell, at Aldi’s you have to bag the shit yourself anyways.
I don’t see how “scan and bag” is any more intensive than “place everything on belt(which is annoying tetris when you have lots of shit), stand around waiting for cashier to scan and bag”.
Aldi backs up that tradeoff with commensurately lower prices, though.
“intensive” isn’t the right term here, IMO. Pushing me to do the cashier work via self-checkout is more effort than what I do at Aldi. It doesn’t need to be “carry this pallet across the Grand Canyon” to be objectionable.
And the cashier is probably going to screw up the bagging. Does the ice cream go in the insulated re-usable bag, or does it go in a regular bag next to the room temperature canned goods? Pretty good chance it goes into the uninsulated bag, the tomatoes end up in the insulated bag with the milk, etc.
The idea of the jobless future only works if there is an alternative structure in place to allow someone to keep a roof over their head, eat, and enjoy those hobbies they enjoy. Until there is something in place, this is a real issue for people.
Amazon has some stores that don’t have a checkout process. It’s very weird, the level of surveillance to make it happen is creepy, and I found the whole thing uncomfortable the one time I tried it. it also makes it a little too easy to spend money. There is 0 connection between what you’re getting and paying money. It felt like steeling, but I was getting charged behind the scenes. i could see people getting into trouble with that.
I never said otherwise. But the jobs people want to eliminate with automation are going away today. Talking an out the dream of full unemployment is great, but when no systems are in place with this in mind, it’s a nightmare for those being replaced by automation or simply self-service. Maybe they can learn a new skill, but it’s not like someone who ran a cash register for 25 years is going to suddenly become an expert in AI.
I love your spirit, but that world doesn’t exist. Capitalists and conservatives will never allow for a utopian society where people can enjoy their lives on the masses, no matter how advanced production or whatever elses automation becomes. It’s always going to be millions suffering and a small majority having more wealth and power than they can even use in a lifetime.
YES! Marxism is definitely solution. It generates weal… uh uhhh it is sustain… uh uhhh it is efficie… uhhh it is innova… uh uhhh it wor… uhhhhhh wait, Marxist doesn’t do shit because it’s failed ideology. Cry harder tankie.
Communism is a stateless classless moneyless society. what you described is none of those.
That’s communism the utopia, not communism the ideology. The communist utopia is just a part of the Marxist ideology, it isn’t the Marxist ideology. This like calling 100% direct democracy the one and only form of democracy and every attempt at democracy is not real democracy.
none of what you said is evidence to support your earlier claim that I contradicted.
You didn’t contradict shit. You just said “wrong” and provided NOTHING. No arguments, no explanations, no points, no evidence, literally nothing. That’s not contradiciton, that’s just denial. As for my previous comment, it proves my every claim and overwhelmingly. You made a fair statement that I didn’t provide evidence, and so I did just that. Then again, I don’t think you’re capable of actually providing anything more than whatever this is.
The ‘job killers’ argument is kinda bullshit. I want to kill jobs - I want to eliminate all labor that can be automated, such that in the ideal perfect future, no human ever has to work; they can spend every moment doing things they enjoy without worry.
But self checkout is not automation. No human work has been eliminated. It is the same exact fucking checkout process, only now the customer does it instead, and the store doesn’t pay the cashier. And no they don’t pass that savings on to you because of course they don’t, they just pocket the difference.
That’s all true, but just to be a bit nitpicky I’d argue some human work has indeed been eliminated by self checkout.
Cashiers main job is to scan your stuff, but in order to do that they also have to stand around waiting for you and other customers for hours on end, and when you arrive they have to do emotional labor of acting cheerful and upbeat
Still I wish we didn’t live in a society where increased efficiency leads to people being homeless with no jobs.
This seems like a choice. I worked as stocker and would fill in on the register when people went to lunch. I didn’t put on any kind of act, I just scanned their stuff and took their money. Someone told me I was like a robot.
There’s at the very least a lot of social and managerial pressure to act cheerful. Even if you didn’t do it, many people would because it’s effectively required of them. Something being technically a choice doesn’t remove the social pressures that make many feel that it’s not a choice. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s been used as rationale to fire people before, which means that for some, it isn’t a choice (and most people are scared of losing their jobs, so won’t try to find out).
In tipped roles, it would definitely result in less pay.
I can’t think of the last time someone working a register was anything more than polite. 99.9% of the time, we don’t speak in any meaningful way. Their work neither adds value to nor takes value from my day. Which, to be clear, makes me want their jobs to be much, much better. At least give them something to sit on, for goodness sake.
It’s a choice right up until you get fired or reprimanded for not meeting some arbitrary criteria
I tried to use it as a means to get off the register. I hated it. I told my manager people think I’m a robot and shouldn’t be up there, but they just told me to play along and make robot voices and movements. I did not.
They weren’t going to fire me. I was working for minimum wage and the only person they had they didn’t steal shit on a daily basis.
There will be a screenshot of this comment in a murder documentary someday.
With normal checkout the customer is still the one putting groceries on the belt, and in most cases putting the bags back into the cart. Hell, at Aldi’s you have to bag the shit yourself anyways.
I don’t see how “scan and bag” is any more intensive than “place everything on belt(which is annoying tetris when you have lots of shit), stand around waiting for cashier to scan and bag”.
Aldi backs up that tradeoff with commensurately lower prices, though.
“intensive” isn’t the right term here, IMO. Pushing me to do the cashier work via self-checkout is more effort than what I do at Aldi. It doesn’t need to be “carry this pallet across the Grand Canyon” to be objectionable.
And the cashier is probably going to screw up the bagging. Does the ice cream go in the insulated re-usable bag, or does it go in a regular bag next to the room temperature canned goods? Pretty good chance it goes into the uninsulated bag, the tomatoes end up in the insulated bag with the milk, etc.
The idea of the jobless future only works if there is an alternative structure in place to allow someone to keep a roof over their head, eat, and enjoy those hobbies they enjoy. Until there is something in place, this is a real issue for people.
Amazon has some stores that don’t have a checkout process. It’s very weird, the level of surveillance to make it happen is creepy, and I found the whole thing uncomfortable the one time I tried it. it also makes it a little too easy to spend money. There is 0 connection between what you’re getting and paying money. It felt like steeling, but I was getting charged behind the scenes. i could see people getting into trouble with that.
How about universal income, free education, free health care, and free housing?
Sure, but those programs don’t current exist, nor do they seem to be on the horizon… at least in the US.
No system exists before it is implemented.
We got to start someday.
I never said otherwise. But the jobs people want to eliminate with automation are going away today. Talking an out the dream of full unemployment is great, but when no systems are in place with this in mind, it’s a nightmare for those being replaced by automation or simply self-service. Maybe they can learn a new skill, but it’s not like someone who ran a cash register for 25 years is going to suddenly become an expert in AI.
I love your spirit, but that world doesn’t exist. Capitalists and conservatives will never allow for a utopian society where people can enjoy their lives on the masses, no matter how advanced production or whatever elses automation becomes. It’s always going to be millions suffering and a small majority having more wealth and power than they can even use in a lifetime.
That’s stupid. Capitalism is the reason why humanity has advanced so quickly in such little time and why we have the technology that we do.
wrong
Such a powerful argument
I presented exactly as much evidence as you did
Good point. :). Btw. Capitalism is shit. It’s not sustainable, and it has to stop.
YES! Marxism is definitely solution. It generates weal… uh uhhh it is sustain… uh uhhh it is efficie… uhhh it is innova… uh uhhh it wor… uhhhhhh wait, Marxist doesn’t do shit because it’s failed ideology. Cry harder tankie.
Removed by mod
Communism is a stateless classless moneyless society. what you described is none of those.
none of what you said is evidence to support your earlier claim that I contradicted.
That’s communism the utopia, not communism the ideology. The communist utopia is just a part of the Marxist ideology, it isn’t the Marxist ideology. This like calling 100% direct democracy the one and only form of democracy and every attempt at democracy is not real democracy.
You didn’t contradict shit. You just said “wrong” and provided NOTHING. No arguments, no explanations, no points, no evidence, literally nothing. That’s not contradiciton, that’s just denial. As for my previous comment, it proves my every claim and overwhelmingly. You made a fair statement that I didn’t provide evidence, and so I did just that. Then again, I don’t think you’re capable of actually providing anything more than whatever this is.
I’ve encountered checkouts where you just put your hand basket in a container, and it scans everything inside at the same time.
It can and will be automated further.