Seems a few of the culture references didn’t translate due to your background. The imagery is just a representation of urban culture especially urban Texas. Arrogance/confidence in the face of authority which is the most prominent aspect of hip hop culture. Black and brown ppl are already looked down upon so what better way to respond than confidence to the point of arrogance? I know there’s nothing wrong with me, and if you don’t agree you can go fuck yourself. Smirking in the face of facism is something I considered incredibly brave. I know I’m better than a facist. I’ll be smug as hell to them because as far as im concerned the only good facist is a dead one.
Grills, graffiti, and the script used don’t automatically equate gang culture. The script itself is Cholo based. A part of Chicano subculture that doesn’t mean you’re automatically a gang member. There are tons of professional influencial artists who created and use this script with no gang affiliation. Equating it immediately with gang culture is like me thinking every white person who listens to punk or metal is a nazi. Or if they’re into Nordic runes they’re apart of the Aryan Brotherhood.
Not to be insulting but a lot of this reads like a suburb kid whose never explored black or brown culture. I could see Fox News trying to use this a propaganda that “Gang culture is running rampant inside these Anti-ICE protests so ICE is needed more than ever!” But that just shows their overall ignorance of anything not white, light, and suburbanite.
It do appreciate the positive notes on just the artistic aspects but overall this message isn’t for you because you have no cultural frame of reference and that’s ok. But personally I feel you should look into why this imagery ONLY has negative connotations with you.
Edit - If you’re disgusted by imagery that is outside of your culture that’s a bit problematic and honestly its the same kind of attitude that the ppl that support ICE share with you
The reason I went to gang culture is I literally witnessed that from afar almost every day where I grew up. I’m aware some of the symbology of it it can be used outside of that since it’s not really from gang culture(and tried to make note of that), I jumped to the gang culture association from that with help from the gold teeth and general vibe of the piece. It wasn’t “oh it’s latino/black culture? you mean gangs?” so much as “oh that looks like the graffiti by the bridge where I grew up” and “oh yeah, that drug dealer who lived 3 blocks over when I was 12 is the only person I’ve ever seen with visible gold teeth” (actually true lol). I’m aware that since I’m white and have some degree of racism packed into me from childhood by the way I was raised, and it may have had an influence here, but I’m pretty sure a part of this case just came from direct lived experience where I grew up adjacent to, but not part of, black and latino (mostly black tho) communities where a gang subculture was present.
My disgust came from the arrogance and hostility I perceived around that subculture. It was annoying and pathetic to see it idolized where kids around me grew up pretending it was cool to threaten to kill someone for coming to “their street” or whatever. There’s probably something to be said about a white person being disgusted by projected confidence perceived as arrogance from a marginalized group, but I don’t put any respect on gangs themselves so I don’t actually care about being derogatory in that narrow application. Beyond the gangs I wouldn’t put that association intentionally, but it seems I did here so I apologize and I’ll make note to check myself more often in that regard, and make note that there’s art styles out there like this one that can set off some false associations in my mind.
That said, I’m a little surprised you’re surprised this is a probably common interpretation of art styled like this. It intuitively feels like it’s gonna be the most common white person response, whether with a more explicitly racist tone or not.
This art isn’t FOR white ppl. The idea that artwork has to implicitly consider the experiences and opinions of white ppl is in itself problematic. As I mentioned above if you have no frame of reference to a culture its better to just say nothing before trying to critisize that what you dont understand. All it does is expose your own ignorance. I know little about LGBTQ+ culture but i never feel the need to criticize their imagary and ultimately shut up and let them speak their peace because i know very little.
While I appreciate the apology I still hold some resent towards you because you tried to justify your ignorance and its not my responsibility to educate you on why you are wrong. As a human being you should want to learn more about cultures because its not just black, white, asian or latino, etc. culture. Its all human culture. There’s nothing more tiring and frustrating than having to justify your culture to someone whos gone out of their way to ignore it considering black and brown culture are a major pillars of american society. Your anecdotal experiences don’t define my culture that has been around since the start of the US.
Ultimately, be a better person.
Edit - also as someone with a trans flag in your profile, you should know better
This is can appreciate.
Seems a few of the culture references didn’t translate due to your background. The imagery is just a representation of urban culture especially urban Texas. Arrogance/confidence in the face of authority which is the most prominent aspect of hip hop culture. Black and brown ppl are already looked down upon so what better way to respond than confidence to the point of arrogance? I know there’s nothing wrong with me, and if you don’t agree you can go fuck yourself. Smirking in the face of facism is something I considered incredibly brave. I know I’m better than a facist. I’ll be smug as hell to them because as far as im concerned the only good facist is a dead one.
Grills, graffiti, and the script used don’t automatically equate gang culture. The script itself is Cholo based. A part of Chicano subculture that doesn’t mean you’re automatically a gang member. There are tons of professional influencial artists who created and use this script with no gang affiliation. Equating it immediately with gang culture is like me thinking every white person who listens to punk or metal is a nazi. Or if they’re into Nordic runes they’re apart of the Aryan Brotherhood.
Not to be insulting but a lot of this reads like a suburb kid whose never explored black or brown culture. I could see Fox News trying to use this a propaganda that “Gang culture is running rampant inside these Anti-ICE protests so ICE is needed more than ever!” But that just shows their overall ignorance of anything not white, light, and suburbanite.
It do appreciate the positive notes on just the artistic aspects but overall this message isn’t for you because you have no cultural frame of reference and that’s ok. But personally I feel you should look into why this imagery ONLY has negative connotations with you.
Edit - If you’re disgusted by imagery that is outside of your culture that’s a bit problematic and honestly its the same kind of attitude that the ppl that support ICE share with you
Very insightful response, thank you.
The reason I went to gang culture is I literally witnessed that from afar almost every day where I grew up. I’m aware some of the symbology of it it can be used outside of that since it’s not really from gang culture(and tried to make note of that), I jumped to the gang culture association from that with help from the gold teeth and general vibe of the piece. It wasn’t “oh it’s latino/black culture? you mean gangs?” so much as “oh that looks like the graffiti by the bridge where I grew up” and “oh yeah, that drug dealer who lived 3 blocks over when I was 12 is the only person I’ve ever seen with visible gold teeth” (actually true lol). I’m aware that since I’m white and have some degree of racism packed into me from childhood by the way I was raised, and it may have had an influence here, but I’m pretty sure a part of this case just came from direct lived experience where I grew up adjacent to, but not part of, black and latino (mostly black tho) communities where a gang subculture was present.
My disgust came from the arrogance and hostility I perceived around that subculture. It was annoying and pathetic to see it idolized where kids around me grew up pretending it was cool to threaten to kill someone for coming to “their street” or whatever. There’s probably something to be said about a white person being disgusted by projected confidence perceived as arrogance from a marginalized group, but I don’t put any respect on gangs themselves so I don’t actually care about being derogatory in that narrow application. Beyond the gangs I wouldn’t put that association intentionally, but it seems I did here so I apologize and I’ll make note to check myself more often in that regard, and make note that there’s art styles out there like this one that can set off some false associations in my mind.
That said, I’m a little surprised you’re surprised this is a probably common interpretation of art styled like this. It intuitively feels like it’s gonna be the most common white person response, whether with a more explicitly racist tone or not.
This art isn’t FOR white ppl. The idea that artwork has to implicitly consider the experiences and opinions of white ppl is in itself problematic. As I mentioned above if you have no frame of reference to a culture its better to just say nothing before trying to critisize that what you dont understand. All it does is expose your own ignorance. I know little about LGBTQ+ culture but i never feel the need to criticize their imagary and ultimately shut up and let them speak their peace because i know very little.
While I appreciate the apology I still hold some resent towards you because you tried to justify your ignorance and its not my responsibility to educate you on why you are wrong. As a human being you should want to learn more about cultures because its not just black, white, asian or latino, etc. culture. Its all human culture. There’s nothing more tiring and frustrating than having to justify your culture to someone whos gone out of their way to ignore it considering black and brown culture are a major pillars of american society. Your anecdotal experiences don’t define my culture that has been around since the start of the US.
Ultimately, be a better person.
Edit - also as someone with a trans flag in your profile, you should know better