You sound like a rational and friendly dude. Yet morality in regards to google and its cost of operating?
Remember when their slogan literally was “Don’t be evil!”? And the moment they took it down?
They’re mainly responsible for the whole enshittification of the Web.
Even if you block everything from them and appear data-worthless, you will still have to solve fucking recapthchas (or work for free for them) or simple get denied access to so so many sites.
And even if you avoid those too, billions won’t. I call this idiocracy-Flatrate. They pay, i don’t. In the end google will still live forever and dominate the net.
Wouldn’t betray a small-time indie of their donation or anything. But the literal satan of the net? Fork them. In the eye.
I don’t feel like adressing every point seperately because I’m just slothing with my cat in my bed right now. I’ll just be rambling a bit.
Anyways. Yeah sure, Google is a bad company in many regards, I’m with you. Morals and ethics are about as subjective as it gets, so here’s my take on that.
Just because some entity is morally in the wrong doesn’t justify my own actions, whatever they may be. What makes it fair to obtain goods and services from Google without paying the price? It’s quasi-stealing but I already brought that up before. If the Alphabet Corp. (Google and stuff) is so bad, then maybe you should avoid their products by principle.
I know in the grand scheme it doesn’t matter what I do. The odds of my actions actually doing anything at all are quite low. Where I’m from people used to say “somewhere a bag of rice tipped over”. It’s inconsequential. And I believe that’s true in everyday life but I also know it’s not true in the grand scheme.
While I am an individual, I have to look at my actions as if they are not. It doesn’t matter if I burn through 100 gallons of petrol a day… but it does matter if we all do it.
So yes, I agree with you in each and every way. Except I somehow also don’t. It’s really hard to live by the same morals and ethics each and every day. Utilitarism sounds good… but not for everything, same goes for deontology. Many concepts in ethics are not compatible with eachother and I don’t think it’s “normal” to even strive to find your own morals.
Google may be bad, but their business model with YouTube specifically isn’t really all that evil. They maintain a well established, feature rich platform and people get to share their content on that site for free. A small percentage earns money or even gets to make a living through that. They also maintain said platform for advertisers with promises on how often their ads will be shown and how they will be placed, received and forced upon a user. In this instance it’s not entirely clear who the bad guy is. All of em, kind of.
I studied for a bit a few years back and we had a series of courses called “ethics for engineers”. It was mainly about figuring out what you get to do and what you have to do as an engineer of any kind in terms of ethics. Right now I’m wondering, would I really feel all that bad as a software engineer or whatnot at such a company? It really depends I guess. Sure, increasing the ad counter from 2 to 3 sucks for users. Yet they accept it in some way u know? If they didn’t accept, they wouldn’t stay on YouTube. Using YouTube is not something you are forced to, you could, at any time, just stop. So, if supplying more ads is really totally nessecary to have the platform be profitable (which, be honest, in some form or another, it must be), it’s morally sound. Would it really be better to let the platform die? I don’t belive so. I believe the platform kind of self regulates in a sense that it would just die off it they took any negative aspect too far.
I don’t know what they promise their content creators… this view might look completely different by the way.
So. Yeah. Dunno. I don’t think “cheating” YouTube by blocking ads or whatnot is all that fair. It’s still legal, though. Probably still better to stay away if you believe that they are such a bad company.
I get you, yes. And I get your argument. Purely logically, ethics shouldn’t matter whether being applying to big evil corpo or to tiny mom&pops. That’s why it’s ethics and not whatever-i-just-fell-like-now.
But to me it does matter. And it’s not really about blocking ads so google will starve. What I do doesn’t matter in the slightest in the grand scheme of things, just like you said. It’s just about being able to look in the mirror not spitting at the reflection because I’m true to my values.
It’s about what google (alphabet, whatever) has become I so despise. I grew up with the net growing up, and I witnessed every single step downwards and it’s mostly thanks to google. I must admit i’m a horrible hippocrite, because I only use Pixel-phones. Which is ironic in itself, but they’re the only phones you could easily DE-google. All others will throw layer of layer of “protection” in your way, so you’ll never really own your own phone. And I hate myself for doing it, but I see no alternative.
Besides that. Yes. I simply don’t use ANY google product. Not even youtube. Never cared, never will. Only thing I ocassionaly watch there are music-videos (which I’ll then download and never use youtube for that again). If I HAD to see an ad, I would simply close the tab and be done with it.
I couldn’t work for such a company. No matter the pay, I would always feel bad. I once worked for a great charity in Krautland (which you’ll most likely know) which cares about cancer. As an Admin, so kinda like a software-engineer, but for hardware :-) I thought it was a dream working for a charity! Boy how wrong I was. As an admin, I could see everything (of course). And what I saw was horrible. The only reason for this charity is 0,1% help for cancer, 50% pay for the CEOs and their expensive cars and daily “buisness trips” and 49,9% upkeep. Which includes a complete floor of people who’s job it was to extort old people for their inheritance. The cellar full of millions of assets in paintings and whatnot. Simply rotting around. Money’s being brokered from shell-charity to trust-fun and whatnot.
I quit withing the first 6 months. Disgusted. And it was a good pay and essentially an un-fire-able job (they never do, no matter what you do, just because you could talk bad and ruin their image).
And guess what, nobody understood how I could value my “silly morals” over a great job.
Long story short: it’s a complex topic for a tiny comment and I don’t even know where to cut off or what to include :)
So in a re-phrase: What if I do not block ads, but am totally immune of the effects of ads? Isn’t that even more cheating? I can’t be influenced by those things. Except maybe having a preference then for NOT choosing the advertised product simply because its ad annoyed me. Wouldn’t it be more fair to just block it and accidentially buy that product I never saw an ad of?
You sound like a rational and friendly dude. Yet morality in regards to google and its cost of operating? Remember when their slogan literally was “Don’t be evil!”? And the moment they took it down? They’re mainly responsible for the whole enshittification of the Web.
Even if you block everything from them and appear data-worthless, you will still have to solve fucking recapthchas (or work for free for them) or simple get denied access to so so many sites.
And even if you avoid those too, billions won’t. I call this idiocracy-Flatrate. They pay, i don’t. In the end google will still live forever and dominate the net.
Wouldn’t betray a small-time indie of their donation or anything. But the literal satan of the net? Fork them. In the eye.
I don’t feel like adressing every point seperately because I’m just slothing with my cat in my bed right now. I’ll just be rambling a bit.
Anyways. Yeah sure, Google is a bad company in many regards, I’m with you. Morals and ethics are about as subjective as it gets, so here’s my take on that. Just because some entity is morally in the wrong doesn’t justify my own actions, whatever they may be. What makes it fair to obtain goods and services from Google without paying the price? It’s quasi-stealing but I already brought that up before. If the Alphabet Corp. (Google and stuff) is so bad, then maybe you should avoid their products by principle.
I know in the grand scheme it doesn’t matter what I do. The odds of my actions actually doing anything at all are quite low. Where I’m from people used to say “somewhere a bag of rice tipped over”. It’s inconsequential. And I believe that’s true in everyday life but I also know it’s not true in the grand scheme. While I am an individual, I have to look at my actions as if they are not. It doesn’t matter if I burn through 100 gallons of petrol a day… but it does matter if we all do it.
So yes, I agree with you in each and every way. Except I somehow also don’t. It’s really hard to live by the same morals and ethics each and every day. Utilitarism sounds good… but not for everything, same goes for deontology. Many concepts in ethics are not compatible with eachother and I don’t think it’s “normal” to even strive to find your own morals.
Google may be bad, but their business model with YouTube specifically isn’t really all that evil. They maintain a well established, feature rich platform and people get to share their content on that site for free. A small percentage earns money or even gets to make a living through that. They also maintain said platform for advertisers with promises on how often their ads will be shown and how they will be placed, received and forced upon a user. In this instance it’s not entirely clear who the bad guy is. All of em, kind of.
I studied for a bit a few years back and we had a series of courses called “ethics for engineers”. It was mainly about figuring out what you get to do and what you have to do as an engineer of any kind in terms of ethics. Right now I’m wondering, would I really feel all that bad as a software engineer or whatnot at such a company? It really depends I guess. Sure, increasing the ad counter from 2 to 3 sucks for users. Yet they accept it in some way u know? If they didn’t accept, they wouldn’t stay on YouTube. Using YouTube is not something you are forced to, you could, at any time, just stop. So, if supplying more ads is really totally nessecary to have the platform be profitable (which, be honest, in some form or another, it must be), it’s morally sound. Would it really be better to let the platform die? I don’t belive so. I believe the platform kind of self regulates in a sense that it would just die off it they took any negative aspect too far.
I don’t know what they promise their content creators… this view might look completely different by the way.
So. Yeah. Dunno. I don’t think “cheating” YouTube by blocking ads or whatnot is all that fair. It’s still legal, though. Probably still better to stay away if you believe that they are such a bad company.
Ja der Sack Reis :-)
I get you, yes. And I get your argument. Purely logically, ethics shouldn’t matter whether being applying to big evil corpo or to tiny mom&pops. That’s why it’s ethics and not whatever-i-just-fell-like-now. But to me it does matter. And it’s not really about blocking ads so google will starve. What I do doesn’t matter in the slightest in the grand scheme of things, just like you said. It’s just about being able to look in the mirror not spitting at the reflection because I’m true to my values. It’s about what google (alphabet, whatever) has become I so despise. I grew up with the net growing up, and I witnessed every single step downwards and it’s mostly thanks to google. I must admit i’m a horrible hippocrite, because I only use Pixel-phones. Which is ironic in itself, but they’re the only phones you could easily DE-google. All others will throw layer of layer of “protection” in your way, so you’ll never really own your own phone. And I hate myself for doing it, but I see no alternative.
Besides that. Yes. I simply don’t use ANY google product. Not even youtube. Never cared, never will. Only thing I ocassionaly watch there are music-videos (which I’ll then download and never use youtube for that again). If I HAD to see an ad, I would simply close the tab and be done with it.
I couldn’t work for such a company. No matter the pay, I would always feel bad. I once worked for a great charity in Krautland (which you’ll most likely know) which cares about cancer. As an Admin, so kinda like a software-engineer, but for hardware :-) I thought it was a dream working for a charity! Boy how wrong I was. As an admin, I could see everything (of course). And what I saw was horrible. The only reason for this charity is 0,1% help for cancer, 50% pay for the CEOs and their expensive cars and daily “buisness trips” and 49,9% upkeep. Which includes a complete floor of people who’s job it was to extort old people for their inheritance. The cellar full of millions of assets in paintings and whatnot. Simply rotting around. Money’s being brokered from shell-charity to trust-fun and whatnot. I quit withing the first 6 months. Disgusted. And it was a good pay and essentially an un-fire-able job (they never do, no matter what you do, just because you could talk bad and ruin their image). And guess what, nobody understood how I could value my “silly morals” over a great job.
Long story short: it’s a complex topic for a tiny comment and I don’t even know where to cut off or what to include :)
So in a re-phrase: What if I do not block ads, but am totally immune of the effects of ads? Isn’t that even more cheating? I can’t be influenced by those things. Except maybe having a preference then for NOT choosing the advertised product simply because its ad annoyed me. Wouldn’t it be more fair to just block it and accidentially buy that product I never saw an ad of?