• Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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    1 day ago

    I’ve said it elsewhere, but In my opinion, beyond simply being for progressing onto the next mode of production (at this time socialism) vs remaining on our current or going backward (capitalism, monarchism, etc), I don’t think comparing ideologies by how far they are on this “spectrum” actually makes much sense.

    For example, I don’t think comparing Marxists and anarchists by how “left” we are is a useful metric. Both of them are on the left, but trying to do a comparison outside of the differing propositions and analysis leads into contradictions and absurdities when trying to make it fit onto a clean spectrum. The same goes for the right.

    All that is to say that personally, I use left and right by our present moment, and don’t put too much effort into analyzing how far left or right something may be considered. Liberalism was left during the French Revolution, against the monarchy, but we are several hundred yeard beyond that now and capitalism is dominant, not monarchism. The present divide is socialism vs capitalism, and the few monarchists that exist don’t really have much of an impact on that.

    Make sense? This was kind of a ramble.

    • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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      1 day ago

      I just meant that “liberal” doesn’t cover all the people who would hold the sentiment pictured in the meme. A lot of ardent anti-communists are also against liberalism and can’t be really described as liberal imo.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        1 day ago

        I think the group that holds those views, ie monarchists, etc, is very, very small and not really relevant. That’s more my point.

        • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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          1 day ago

          There’s all kinds of authoritarian ideologies that are incompatible with liberalism. Not unfortunately that uncommon, especially nowadays that that shit has had a resurgence

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            1 day ago

            Liberalism itself, in that it upholds capitalism, is “authoritarian.” Not sure what you’re getting at, ideologies all vary in quantity of holders and historic importance, I see no reason to pretend monarchists are equally as relevant to the right as liberals.

            • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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              1 day ago

              Well that’s certainly a take. But I’m not talking about just monarchists, lots of other groups than monarchists that don’t subscribe to ideas of liberalism. It’s just not capitalism = liberalism.

              And the point was just that this is directed at liberals for some reason when it could be directed at all the groups that do the same thing. That’s all.

                • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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                  1 day ago

                  Most authoritarian conservative right-wing movements gaining popularity right now are far away from the values that make up liberalism. There’s no shortage of those. In Europe they’re likely going to sweep most of the continent, if the recent polls hold true.

                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                    1 day ago

                    Those are subsections of liberalism, I think you’re trying too hard to wishcast an ideal form of liberalism and cut out all of the other significant forms of it. Liberalism was used to justify colonialism, the slave trade, and continues to be used to justify imperialism.