no, im a linux user. if someone doesnt want to dedicate time to adopt and learn, linux isnt “easier”. even if linux was as easy as windows (idk it can even be compared tbh); its different. different requires time and effort, if someone cant do that (for any reason, this isnt a judgement), its not an easy move.
I don’t disagree in general. However, my mom has been running Linux with a Windows XP skin for almost 8 years now without knowing she’s using Linux. Literally just keeps her from running a random .exe and she does everything on a browser anyway.
My wife is not technical and has no interest in adopting and learning anything.
The web works the same way regardless of the OS, and LibreOffice has all the same features as Word that she uses.
The “hard part” is choosing and upgrading hardware, and maybe installation (depending on distribution).
I mention this because I think we should evaluate these differently. With a preloaded desktop/laptop, I’ve had no issues with anyone that actually relates to Linux (except my BIL who was trying to build an arcade stick for gaming).
Explaining to my other BIL how to select hardware for his custom build, that took some time, as did guiding him through the installation.
im sorry but LibreOffice might have all the features of word but it certainly has a really bad user experience. i write often and libreoffice writer is difficult to say the least, not because of lack of features but a lack of most ‘little things’ and ‘tweaks’. i can definitely see someone switching to libreoffice from word, but saying its not ‘hard’ is untrue or a biased take in my opinion and using both suites (more familiar with libre though lmao).
i do agree that for a mostly web based user as is commonplace nowadays, a preloaded linux thats been decently built is gonna be a significantly easy switch.
on a slight tangent, but linux for me was a way to rebuild my love for computers after windows systematically fucked things. and i really enjoy the learning process. so personally i still encourage people to spend the time in the learning process atleast a bit
i write often and libreoffice writer is difficult to say the least, not because of lack of features but a lack of most ‘little things’ and ‘tweaks’.
I think you’re missing the fact that you are doing more ‘expert’ things than most here. The majority of the time, my wife opens a document she made once, saves as a new file (no, she’s not using templates - don’t get me started), and writes her invoice. She then PDFs it and sends it via email.
She does the same thing with Calc and a previously made blank “monthly calendar”. Opens the blank, saves for the client, enters in the days and renames the month at the top, notes what she’ll be doing for them on each day with an hour estimate, PDF and email.
I would say give onlyoffice a try. It’s not FOSS but does have free tier for home use and it’s what I go to for non-main work computer. Beats libre imo.
Yeah, LibreOffice stuck with the old UI/UX for better and worse. Luckily we do have a nice selection of Office Suites in addition to them. OnlyOffice, WPS Office, Collabora, KDE Calligra, Softmaker Office… surely there’s one for everyone on Linux.
and i also say this as someone who is required to use windows at work. i despise windows, its so much harder for me to use windows given linux been my daily driver for a long time. im annoyed at powershell, explorer, clunky shortcut behaviors, etc just about every second im on windows. its a nightmare difficulty for me, but i also refuse to ever relearn windows stuff. i do remember a time when it wasnt annoying as fuck to use, could be nostalgia or that people just adopt.
using windows as a linux user is a nightmare. but if someone is adopted to windows, the opposite is gonna be similar no matter what.
I also use windows for work.
Shits stupid. Search in the start bar for an app that’s installed on your PC? Let’s open edge and show you web results.
Want to copy something out of teams? Here’s a copilot link you just accidentally clicked.
Thanks for accepting that TOS.
I’d love some say on my work computer but alas I’m a grunt.
I want to add a user to a group, so I bring up Entra and search Groups, too bad it’s a Mail-enabled Security group, so now I have to do it in Exchange admin and enable a separate admin role for myself.
I want to disable a device in Intune, so I search for device XYZ in Intune and there’s no disable button. You have to figure out who’s the primary user on the device, look them up, find XYZ in their device assignments and there’s the disable button.
Sure you can do it in Powershell or Graph and hope they haven’t deprecated whatever module you were using last week or changed the process entirely.
I’d love some say on my work computer but alas I’m a grunt.
Not a grunt, but still run my work laptop like I am one. I use it exclusively for teams, outlook, office, etc, and nothing else work related though since I can still save to our (non-MS) cloud environment thanks to rclone. Which technically meets the criteria - which has nothing to do with the fact that I wrote the criteria. Totally unexpected benefit! Didn’t plan it that way at all. Nope, it was 100% because one of the partners will only use a mac. Promise.
Ah, assurance of compliance (pinky swear promises) over usability.
I once had to use a windows laptop that had to be stored in a safe when I wasn’t using it, could only use it in a room that was keyed entry (also where the safe was). But the firewall config was practically wide open, and it had direct access to the internet. I couldn’t even change it to be more secure. Ended up not connecting it to a network at all and just sneakernetting a thumb drive around so I wouldn’t risk catching blame if something got out.
Edit: Yes, a thumb drive. That wasn’t blocked either on this “hardened” system.
Well, the whole reason people have to “adopt and learn” is because M$ bought their way onto virtually every new PC sold back in the 90s, so people’s first experience would be their “operating system.”
Talk about leveraging anchoring bias.
I’d argue you’d have a hard time selling Windows to people if you were honest about it.
For just 145€ you get:
an operating system that assumes you’re an inept idiot
ads in your application launcher
a screenshot taken every minute, which gets stored outside your control and analysed by “AI”
an invasive “assistant” that listens in on your microphone at all times
forced to create an account to log in to “your” machine, so we can collect even more personal data
Especially when the alternative is free and let’s you do whatever you want with your hardware. And if you happen to misconfigure something you get to be an adult about it and learn from your mistakes.
oh im not disagreeing with that. windows is not easy to learn (as i said in my comment response to my comment above) after u stop being used to it. i doubt its easier if u are new to it either. they definitely just bought their way into making it the status quo. like how chrome did with browsing the web. or google with gmail. or google with etc etc.
what i am saying is that ignoring the “adopt and learn” part isnt benefiting anyone
no, im a linux user. if someone doesnt want to dedicate time to adopt and learn, linux isnt “easier”. even if linux was as easy as windows (idk it can even be compared tbh); its different. different requires time and effort, if someone cant do that (for any reason, this isnt a judgement), its not an easy move.
I don’t disagree in general. However, my mom has been running Linux with a Windows XP skin for almost 8 years now without knowing she’s using Linux. Literally just keeps her from running a random .exe and she does everything on a browser anyway.
I don’t think you realize just how complicated it has become to administer windows these days.
as stated in the thread, i use windows at work
My wife is not technical and has no interest in adopting and learning anything.
The web works the same way regardless of the OS, and LibreOffice has all the same features as Word that she uses.
The “hard part” is choosing and upgrading hardware, and maybe installation (depending on distribution).
I mention this because I think we should evaluate these differently. With a preloaded desktop/laptop, I’ve had no issues with anyone that actually relates to Linux (except my BIL who was trying to build an arcade stick for gaming).
Explaining to my other BIL how to select hardware for his custom build, that took some time, as did guiding him through the installation.
im sorry but LibreOffice might have all the features of word but it certainly has a really bad user experience. i write often and libreoffice writer is difficult to say the least, not because of lack of features but a lack of most ‘little things’ and ‘tweaks’. i can definitely see someone switching to libreoffice from word, but saying its not ‘hard’ is untrue or a biased take in my opinion and using both suites (more familiar with libre though lmao).
i do agree that for a mostly web based user as is commonplace nowadays, a preloaded linux thats been decently built is gonna be a significantly easy switch.
on a slight tangent, but linux for me was a way to rebuild my love for computers after windows systematically fucked things. and i really enjoy the learning process. so personally i still encourage people to spend the time in the learning process atleast a bit
I think you’re missing the fact that you are doing more ‘expert’ things than most here. The majority of the time, my wife opens a document she made once, saves as a new file (no, she’s not using templates - don’t get me started), and writes her invoice. She then PDFs it and sends it via email.
She does the same thing with Calc and a previously made blank “monthly calendar”. Opens the blank, saves for the client, enters in the days and renames the month at the top, notes what she’ll be doing for them on each day with an hour estimate, PDF and email.
That is the kind of thing most people do.
ah fuck, i did this
I was seriously considering posting it but didn’t want you to think I was being a dick about it 😀
appreciated, reality checks are best served plain
I would say give onlyoffice a try. It’s not FOSS but does have free tier for home use and it’s what I go to for non-main work computer. Beats libre imo.
i do use onlyoffice when i have to work with MSOffice docs, its very similar. but the emphasis on AI has irked me too much to make it a regular use
Yeah, LibreOffice stuck with the old UI/UX for better and worse. Luckily we do have a nice selection of Office Suites in addition to them. OnlyOffice, WPS Office, Collabora, KDE Calligra, Softmaker Office… surely there’s one for everyone on Linux.
Personally I like OnlyOffice.
Bazzite, legit unless you got some funky setup you just install and go.
and i also say this as someone who is required to use windows at work. i despise windows, its so much harder for me to use windows given linux been my daily driver for a long time. im annoyed at powershell, explorer, clunky shortcut behaviors, etc just about every second im on windows. its a nightmare difficulty for me, but i also refuse to ever relearn windows stuff. i do remember a time when it wasnt annoying as fuck to use, could be nostalgia or that people just adopt.
using windows as a linux user is a nightmare. but if someone is adopted to windows, the opposite is gonna be similar no matter what.
I also use windows for work. Shits stupid. Search in the start bar for an app that’s installed on your PC? Let’s open edge and show you web results. Want to copy something out of teams? Here’s a copilot link you just accidentally clicked. Thanks for accepting that TOS.
I’d love some say on my work computer but alas I’m a grunt.
The administration tools are just as bad.
I want to add a user to a group, so I bring up Entra and search Groups, too bad it’s a Mail-enabled Security group, so now I have to do it in Exchange admin and enable a separate admin role for myself.
I want to disable a device in Intune, so I search for device XYZ in Intune and there’s no disable button. You have to figure out who’s the primary user on the device, look them up, find XYZ in their device assignments and there’s the disable button.
Sure you can do it in Powershell or Graph and hope they haven’t deprecated whatever module you were using last week or changed the process entirely.
Don’t get me started with administrating access on folders in Teams and Sharepoint somehow not give a fuck about it.
Not a grunt, but still run my work laptop like I am one. I use it exclusively for teams, outlook, office, etc, and nothing else work related though since I can still save to our (non-MS) cloud environment thanks to rclone. Which technically meets the criteria - which has nothing to do with the fact that I wrote the criteria. Totally unexpected benefit! Didn’t plan it that way at all. Nope, it was 100% because one of the partners will only use a mac. Promise.
(I’m sorry about your laptop)
Haha it happens. I work for a medical software company so they are terrified of HIPPA fines.
So it is what it is. :/
Ah, assurance of compliance (pinky swear promises) over usability.
I once had to use a windows laptop that had to be stored in a safe when I wasn’t using it, could only use it in a room that was keyed entry (also where the safe was). But the firewall config was practically wide open, and it had direct access to the internet. I couldn’t even change it to be more secure. Ended up not connecting it to a network at all and just sneakernetting a thumb drive around so I wouldn’t risk catching blame if something got out.
Edit: Yes, a thumb drive. That wasn’t blocked either on this “hardened” system.
Well, the whole reason people have to “adopt and learn” is because M$ bought their way onto virtually every new PC sold back in the 90s, so people’s first experience would be their “operating system.”
Talk about leveraging anchoring bias.
I’d argue you’d have a hard time selling Windows to people if you were honest about it.
Especially when the alternative is free and let’s you do whatever you want with your hardware. And if you happen to misconfigure something you get to be an adult about it and learn from your mistakes.
oh im not disagreeing with that. windows is not easy to learn (as i said in my comment response to my comment above) after u stop being used to it. i doubt its easier if u are new to it either. they definitely just bought their way into making it the status quo. like how chrome did with browsing the web. or google with gmail. or google with etc etc.
what i am saying is that ignoring the “adopt and learn” part isnt benefiting anyone