Yanukovych taking the Russian loan is why the west couped him, though.
It’s pretty safe to assume that they use those symbols because they where used by anti-russian movements of the past, rather than because they believe in race superriority and need for killing jews in camps.
It isn’t at all safe to assume. These are Nazis literally calling themselves as such.
Second, how tf would anyone define a russian from ukrainian? Those are not ethnicities in the first place. Cultural differences are practically non-existent. Even language. I already told about all of that.
Russia and Ukraine have distinct ethnicities, culture, and language, and have their own historied regions. Similarities do not mean they outright are the same, this is the line far-right Russians use to claim Ukraine itself is illegitimate.
How the fuck are the eastern conflicts prior to 2022 are “ethinic cleansing”, but all-out war with the objective to seize Eastern Ukraine, resulting in tens of thousands ukrainians dead is not “ethnic cleansing” to you?
War isn’t ethnic cleansing, while Kiev actively targeted ethnic Russians.
Also, good on you for defending the “good and fluffy nationalism” so that the “evil imerialism” won’t come. Look out of the window and see for yourself how well this twist of logic works. Every modern country is national, and it doest prevent corporate imperialism in any way. Every country is national, yet we still got NATO. And nato would’ve bossibly been a good thing, if only it wasn’t just a US plaything. US regime is quite nationalist btw. Doesn’t prevent their imperialistic advances in any way.
This is an extreme misreading of what I said. I despise the nationalism of imperialist states like the US, but support the nationalism of countries like Burkina Faso that have nationalist revolutions against their own colonization. Nationalism doesn’t prevent an imperialist country from being imperialist, it can be a tool used by oppressed peoples in liberating themselves. I’m no PatSoc or MAGA Communist.
Thanks for sharing the “good read”, but unless i see any reasoning that you extracted from it, i won’t consider it good. And it just so happens that your reasoning is not the best so far.
Yanukovych taking the Russian loan is why the west couped him, though.
my point still stands. You can’t light a wet log, just as you can’t initiate a coup (especially of this scale), if people happy with the present regime.
And If we’re delving into discussing only the geopolitical reasons, the current war, judging by the deeds of either political side, is held mainly due to the resources found on the east of Ukraine.
It isn’t at all safe to assume. These are Nazis literally calling themselves as such.
They can call themselves whatever atrocious things they want and use whatever symbolics they want to our mutual distaste, (i’d still like to hear where they stated that they’re nazis tho) yet their ideology doesn’t match to the one of nazis’.
To be frank, i’m so tired of this shit. I wonder, how much years will pass until people finally stop competing, who’d first claim their political opponent to be Hitler. Literally the most basic attempt at dehumanization. And just fyi, claims about russians being nazis where just as many.
Russia and Ukraine have distinct ethnicities, culture, and language…
Of course they’re not the same, yet, as i previously said, linguistic attribution does not work universally, there are quite many Ukrainians for whom russian is their main language. Such cases are occurent on all of the Ukrainian territory.
The ethnic mix is also practically indistinguishable, as i, once again, had already stated.
Modern culture is as well quite troublesome to distinguish, due to intercultural communication, apparent in the past, and bracically universal in the modern day thanks to the internet.
There are few exceptions regarding the ethnicity and culture in some isolated regions, like Carpathian or Caucasian mountains, but those always were a minority.
Ah yes, the internet. if you’re anywhere from the post-ussr part of the earth, you’d know how close and indistinguishable those cultures really are, because you’d be able to find lots of common cultural experience simply hanging out in the post-soviet internet space, aka runet.
Tracking by family tree would also be troublesome. Many ukrainians have relatives in Russia and other way around.
Yes, i’m afraid that the russian far-right are not entirely wrong, there is really a lot in common. It doesn’t justify their wish for “rebuilding” the “ussr” tho.
War isn’t ethnic cleansing, while Kiev actively targeted ethnic Russians.
once again, neither “Russian” nor “Ukrainian” are ethnoses. And once again, especially if we’re talking about the Eastern Ukraine, you will be able to distingush one from another only by asking for their passport. On what basis you call that “ethnic cleansing”, because not only Ukrainians and Russians are indistinguishable from each other, there where political progams, aiding easteners with relocation to safer regions.
The motives you assumed just do not correlate with the actions that were taken.
The assumption that fighting began due to discovery of atural resources on the Ukrainian east just adds up better.
I despise the nationalism of imperialist states like the US, but support the nationalism of countries like Burkina Faso
quite the double standards you got there. Nationality as a concept is nothing more than a hoax, first invented in France during the revolution.
It’s a mean of manipulation to instill large-scale tribalism into people. I believe people of the modern age should unite based of their political ideology, rather than based of a national myth. And guess what, they already do. Only the modern political system doesn’t take this into account, so what we get is a set of countries united on surface, but very polarised underneath.
Such state of constant in-fighting is inevitable in national states, and emerges as soon as external threat ceases.
In other words, nationalism is a bad tool and should be thrown out.
State independence should also come after the well-being and prosperity of individual people inhabiting said state. In other words, if a country isn’t providing sufficient degree of well-being to its citizens, it should be merged with its neigbor in equibenificial manner. As soon as the region becomes prosperous enough to function as a sovereign political unit, it should be separated back. Otherwise, it only serves for the benefit of those in power, and nationalism helps them keep it that way.
Russian-Ukrainian situation is a pretty good example actually. While neigbours kill each other in trenches, those in power have the time of their life, having more control than any their predecessor, as the war serves to be a huge leverage point for them.
You can definitely launch a coup without the public supporting you, that’s largely the difference between a coup and a revolution. Allende was couped despite being popular. Sure, some Ukrainian nationalists were upset with Yanukovych, but it wasn’t a universal reaction (as the DPR and LPR show).
Secondly, saying slavic peoples share a lot in common is similar to saying Chinese ethnicities have a lot in common. It’s true, there are commonalities, but there are also distinct differences. Targeting one group for their unique characteristics is the basis of ethnic cleansing, no matter the similaritied otherwise.
As for your views on nationality, you speak as though imperialism and national liberation movements don’t exist. There’s no double standard in play, the basis of eliminating national divisions is national emancipation. Read Fanon.
Yanukovych taking the Russian loan is why the west couped him, though.
It isn’t at all safe to assume. These are Nazis literally calling themselves as such.
Russia and Ukraine have distinct ethnicities, culture, and language, and have their own historied regions. Similarities do not mean they outright are the same, this is the line far-right Russians use to claim Ukraine itself is illegitimate.
War isn’t ethnic cleansing, while Kiev actively targeted ethnic Russians.
This is an extreme misreading of what I said. I despise the nationalism of imperialist states like the US, but support the nationalism of countries like Burkina Faso that have nationalist revolutions against their own colonization. Nationalism doesn’t prevent an imperialist country from being imperialist, it can be a tool used by oppressed peoples in liberating themselves. I’m no PatSoc or MAGA Communist.
Good thing you entirely misread my reasoning. The Wretched of the Earth is a banger.
Happy New Year!
my point still stands. You can’t light a wet log, just as you can’t initiate a coup (especially of this scale), if people happy with the present regime.
And If we’re delving into discussing only the geopolitical reasons, the current war, judging by the deeds of either political side, is held mainly due to the resources found on the east of Ukraine.
They can call themselves whatever atrocious things they want and use whatever symbolics they want to our mutual distaste, (i’d still like to hear where they stated that they’re nazis tho) yet their ideology doesn’t match to the one of nazis’.
To be frank, i’m so tired of this shit. I wonder, how much years will pass until people finally stop competing, who’d first claim their political opponent to be Hitler. Literally the most basic attempt at dehumanization. And just fyi, claims about russians being nazis where just as many.
Of course they’re not the same, yet, as i previously said, linguistic attribution does not work universally, there are quite many Ukrainians for whom russian is their main language. Such cases are occurent on all of the Ukrainian territory.
The ethnic mix is also practically indistinguishable, as i, once again, had already stated.
Modern culture is as well quite troublesome to distinguish, due to intercultural communication, apparent in the past, and bracically universal in the modern day thanks to the internet.
There are few exceptions regarding the ethnicity and culture in some isolated regions, like Carpathian or Caucasian mountains, but those always were a minority.
Ah yes, the internet. if you’re anywhere from the post-ussr part of the earth, you’d know how close and indistinguishable those cultures really are, because you’d be able to find lots of common cultural experience simply hanging out in the post-soviet internet space, aka runet.
Tracking by family tree would also be troublesome. Many ukrainians have relatives in Russia and other way around.
Yes, i’m afraid that the russian far-right are not entirely wrong, there is really a lot in common. It doesn’t justify their wish for “rebuilding” the “ussr” tho.
once again, neither “Russian” nor “Ukrainian” are ethnoses. And once again, especially if we’re talking about the Eastern Ukraine, you will be able to distingush one from another only by asking for their passport. On what basis you call that “ethnic cleansing”, because not only Ukrainians and Russians are indistinguishable from each other, there where political progams, aiding easteners with relocation to safer regions.
The motives you assumed just do not correlate with the actions that were taken.
The assumption that fighting began due to discovery of atural resources on the Ukrainian east just adds up better.
quite the double standards you got there. Nationality as a concept is nothing more than a hoax, first invented in France during the revolution.
It’s a mean of manipulation to instill large-scale tribalism into people. I believe people of the modern age should unite based of their political ideology, rather than based of a national myth. And guess what, they already do. Only the modern political system doesn’t take this into account, so what we get is a set of countries united on surface, but very polarised underneath.
Such state of constant in-fighting is inevitable in national states, and emerges as soon as external threat ceases.
In other words, nationalism is a bad tool and should be thrown out.
State independence should also come after the well-being and prosperity of individual people inhabiting said state. In other words, if a country isn’t providing sufficient degree of well-being to its citizens, it should be merged with its neigbor in equibenificial manner. As soon as the region becomes prosperous enough to function as a sovereign political unit, it should be separated back. Otherwise, it only serves for the benefit of those in power, and nationalism helps them keep it that way.
Russian-Ukrainian situation is a pretty good example actually. While neigbours kill each other in trenches, those in power have the time of their life, having more control than any their predecessor, as the war serves to be a huge leverage point for them.
You can definitely launch a coup without the public supporting you, that’s largely the difference between a coup and a revolution. Allende was couped despite being popular. Sure, some Ukrainian nationalists were upset with Yanukovych, but it wasn’t a universal reaction (as the DPR and LPR show).
Secondly, saying slavic peoples share a lot in common is similar to saying Chinese ethnicities have a lot in common. It’s true, there are commonalities, but there are also distinct differences. Targeting one group for their unique characteristics is the basis of ethnic cleansing, no matter the similaritied otherwise.
As for your views on nationality, you speak as though imperialism and national liberation movements don’t exist. There’s no double standard in play, the basis of eliminating national divisions is national emancipation. Read Fanon.