I’d pick the same drink every single time, and that makes sense to me as my choice under those conditions. It feels like compatibilism: free will as acting according to my own motivations, even if those are fully determined.
But honestly, I’m still leaning toward determinism being mostly true our actions seem rooted in genetics, environment, childhood coding, and brain states that we don’t ultimately control. We can overcome patterns through therapy, awareness, etc., which gives a sense of freedom, but even that overcoming desire/ability is probably caused by prior factors too. So I’m not 100% hard determinist (because practical change feels real and meaningful), but I’m not fully compatibilist either— it sometimes feels like redefining ‘free will’ to fit determinism.
Quantum uncertainty adds some unpredictability, but as you said, it’s just randomness, not ‘willed’ control, so it doesn’t rescue libertarian free will.
At the end of the day, I agree accountability is crucial we still need to hold people responsible for actions to keep society functioning. How do you personally draw the line where ‘conditioned choice’ becomes ‘free enough’ for moral responsibility?
Yeah I agree that free will and determinism aren’t mutually exclusive. Just because free will doesn’t exist, that doesn’t mean that everything is preordained.
It’s a hard question. For example with children I try to assume that they’re doing the best(only thing) they can and judge their actions from that perspective. With people who are mentally ill or addicts I lean that direction as well but honestly it’s hard with adults.
I truly believe that Putin and Trump are doing the only things they are capable of but I cannot forgive their actions despite them being victims of determinism, just like everybody else.
Society needs to hold people accountable, not because it’s fair, but because it could possibly prevent others from acting similarly.
I cannot forgive their actions despite them being victims of determinism, just like everybody else.
Personally, I feel that’s a different topic. Being determined does not mean your actions can’t be morally judged.
Just because a dangerous animal like a bull might have it in their nature to trample people in the streets does not mean we should just tolerate it and let it go rampant. This behavior should be prevented. And if the cause of the behavior is a human mental/behavioral pattern, then we, as a society, should seek to correct those patterns in whichever way possible. Sometimes this means jail.
However, the punishment is only a means to an end… the goal is to prevent future damage, it’s not a vengeful vendetta out of spite/hate… it would make no sense to punish the same way a child who you know will learn / has learnt their lesson than an animal that you know cannot change their ways and the only solution would be keeping it away from society.
Yeah, I really can’t forgive them either. It’s not only about deterring others from doing the same it’s also because we have empathy. In normal brains, the empathy circuits (like mirror neurons and prefrontal areas) work as they should, so we feel the pain others cause but for some people that system is broken or wired differently from the start. Still society has to hold them accountable.
I’d pick the same drink every single time, and that makes sense to me as my choice under those conditions. It feels like compatibilism: free will as acting according to my own motivations, even if those are fully determined. But honestly, I’m still leaning toward determinism being mostly true our actions seem rooted in genetics, environment, childhood coding, and brain states that we don’t ultimately control. We can overcome patterns through therapy, awareness, etc., which gives a sense of freedom, but even that overcoming desire/ability is probably caused by prior factors too. So I’m not 100% hard determinist (because practical change feels real and meaningful), but I’m not fully compatibilist either— it sometimes feels like redefining ‘free will’ to fit determinism. Quantum uncertainty adds some unpredictability, but as you said, it’s just randomness, not ‘willed’ control, so it doesn’t rescue libertarian free will. At the end of the day, I agree accountability is crucial we still need to hold people responsible for actions to keep society functioning. How do you personally draw the line where ‘conditioned choice’ becomes ‘free enough’ for moral responsibility?
Yeah I agree that free will and determinism aren’t mutually exclusive. Just because free will doesn’t exist, that doesn’t mean that everything is preordained.
It’s a hard question. For example with children I try to assume that they’re doing the best(only thing) they can and judge their actions from that perspective. With people who are mentally ill or addicts I lean that direction as well but honestly it’s hard with adults.
I truly believe that Putin and Trump are doing the only things they are capable of but I cannot forgive their actions despite them being victims of determinism, just like everybody else.
Society needs to hold people accountable, not because it’s fair, but because it could possibly prevent others from acting similarly.
Personally, I feel that’s a different topic. Being determined does not mean your actions can’t be morally judged.
Just because a dangerous animal like a bull might have it in their nature to trample people in the streets does not mean we should just tolerate it and let it go rampant. This behavior should be prevented. And if the cause of the behavior is a human mental/behavioral pattern, then we, as a society, should seek to correct those patterns in whichever way possible. Sometimes this means jail.
However, the punishment is only a means to an end… the goal is to prevent future damage, it’s not a vengeful vendetta out of spite/hate… it would make no sense to punish the same way a child who you know will learn / has learnt their lesson than an animal that you know cannot change their ways and the only solution would be keeping it away from society.
Yeah, I really can’t forgive them either. It’s not only about deterring others from doing the same it’s also because we have empathy. In normal brains, the empathy circuits (like mirror neurons and prefrontal areas) work as they should, so we feel the pain others cause but for some people that system is broken or wired differently from the start. Still society has to hold them accountable.