• goferking (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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        3 days ago

        Piefed ties your voting habits and how often downvoted so it can flag you if either downvoted too much or down vote up and down sort of equally.

        Basically if someone goes against hive mind once or twice can cause getting removed or limited on their instance.

        https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/

        Find people who have low karma

        When someone is consistently getting downvoted it’s likely they are a problem. PieFed provides a list of accounts with low karma, sorted by lowest first. Clicking on their user name takes you to their profile which shows all their posts and comments in one place. Every profile has “Ban” and “Ban + Purge” buttons that have instance-wide effects and are only visible to admins.

        The ‘Rep’ column is their reputation. As you can see, some people have been downvoted thousands of times. They’re not going to change their ways, are they?

        The ‘Reports’ column is how often they’ve been reported, IP shows their IP address and ‘Source’ shows which website linked to PieFed when they initially registered. If an unfriendly forum starts sending floods of toxic people to your instance, spotting them is easy. (In the image above all the accounts are from other instances so we don’t know their IP address or Source). Find people who downvote too much

        Once an account has made a few votes, an “attitude” is calculated each time they vote which is the percentage of up votes vs. down votes.

        People who downvote more than upvote tend to be the ones who get in fights a lot and say snarky, inflammatory and negative things. If you were at a dinner party, would you want them around? By reviewing the list of people with bad attitudes you can make decisions about who you want to be involved in our communities.

        All these accounts have been downvoting a lot (Attitude column) and receiving some downvotes (Rep column). Their profiles are worth a look and then making a decision about whether they’re bringing down the vibe or not.

        • Blaze@piefed.zip
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          2 days ago

          Every single time I see someone with a low reputation warning, they are toxic users.

          It’s an imperfect tool, but it helps identify trolls and sea lions.

          • goferking (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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            2 days ago

            Basically if someone goes against hive mind once or twice can cause getting removed or limited on their instance.

            Except it appears designed for that not actually detection of the bad users. And does nothing when the toxic users just say on their own instance or comm. (like goat, pugjeasus and with recent db0 votes the feddit.org admin)

            • Blaze@piefed.zip
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              2 days ago

              If “going against the hivemind” is insulting people (which is what I’ve seen most of the time with users with both warnings), then it works as intended.

              Also, giving a lot of downvotes is usually a sign of toxicity, and that’s only based on the user’s actions, not the downvotes they receives.

              And does nothing when the toxic users just say on their own instance or comm

              As I said, it’s not a perfect tool. To solve toxic users creating their own communities where they reign alone would require admins stepping in. And in the case you mention, when the person is an admin themselves, there isn’t a lot you can imagine, no tool would be able to address that.

              • goferking (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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                2 days ago

                There has been many times on lemmy and reddit where that is not the case, just saying what people didn’t like was enough. From games to politics people love to dogpile. Making a system that helps do that is asinine.

                Blaze you do so much for the fediverse but defending this type of system is very disappointing to me.

                • Blaze@piefed.zip
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                  2 days ago

                  I said it above, but I’ll rephrase:

                  • a user giving way more downvotes than upvotes than is a sign of toxic behaviour (I insist on “giving”, so the user is the only one doing that action, we are not talking about other people’s actions)
                  • every time I see a user with warnings, they have both, meaning that they give a lot of downvotes (see previous points), and indeed get downvoted back

                  The point you are making with people going against the hivemind is related to people receiving a lot of downvotes, but doesn’t explain people giving a lot of downvotes.

                  Blaze you do so much for the fediverse but defending this type of system is very disappointing to me.

                  I indeed do a lot, and I’ve seen toxic users going rampant at a few moments. The lemm.ee shutdown due to trolling and toxicity is a sign that we needed a way to identify bad faith trolls and toxic users better to avoid mods and admins burnout.

                  • goferking (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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                    2 days ago

                    The point you are making with people going against the hivemind is related to people receiving a lot of downvotes, but doesn’t explain people giving a lot of downvotes.

                    Because it’s treated differently in piefed but still an example of how the software is designed to punish those who do not act the way the creator wants.

                    It just doesn’t seem like a way to actually address bad faith trolls or bad actors just make it easier to purge. Especially with instances that love to keep those types around, see world and shit just works.

              • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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                2 days ago

                giving a lot of downvotes is usually a sign of toxicity

                Emphasis mine. When is it not a sign of toxicity? Rules are defined by their exceptions, so I am curious as to how this exception is navigated, if at all?

                Essentially someone who posts with high frequency has a capacity to issue more downvotes without compromising this admittedly imperfect tool.

                Now I was never really a reddit user, but the problematic karma farming of accounts associated with that place was directly linked to these kinds of tools and metrics, no?

                • Blaze@piefed.zip
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                  2 days ago

                  Emphasis mine. When is it not a sign of toxicity? Rules are defined by their exceptions, so I am curious as to how this exception is navigated, if at all?

                  In my experience, it is almost always the case, but I said usually in case someone came up with a very unique situation.

                  Essentially someone who posts with high frequency has a capacity to issue more downvotes without compromising this admittedly imperfect tool.

                  Are you saying that because they would get more upvotes, they could offset the downvotes they receive? Potentially, but this is where the second metric comes in (giving a lot of downvotes), and as we said, the two are almost always present at the same time.

                  Now I was never really a reddit user, but the problematic karma farming of accounts associated with that place was directly linked to these kinds of tools and metrics, no?

                  Karma farming is an issue when users can see karma as an absolute value. It’s not possible on Piefed, which only shows a percentage of attitude (downvotes given, visible to everyone: https://piefed.zip/u/Blaze ) and reputation (downvotes received, visible only to admins)

                  • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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                    2 days ago

                    Are you saying that because they would get more upvotes, they could offset the downvotes they receive? Potentially, but this is where the second metric comes in (giving a lot of downvotes), and as we said, the two are almost always present at the same time.

                    Right, though it’s a mitigating factor. I guess there’s something I don’t know about piefed: Lemmy comments all have a default upvote from the user that makes it. But it can be revoked by the user. Does Piefed work the same way? My thought only applies if that’s the case.

        • arnitbier@sh.itjust.works
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          3 days ago

          Jesus Christ I hate that the internet is turning this space into your shitty fucking idea of a dinner party

          It’s negative! Oh no better hide that, because some jerks decided being polite is the ultimate Maxim of human expression

          • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
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            2 days ago

            as I understand it does not hide negatively voted comments. these are stats, for to moderators, for helping moderation decisions. It’s not automatic.

            • arnitbier@sh.itjust.works
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              9 hours ago

              It’s the concept that it is good to moderate these spaces like that that bothers. As a human I need to be challenged and that includes dealing with perceptibly negative commentary from people. Not just some whitewashed version of some propagandized online personas masquerading as the the “best” of human beings.

              Like IRL, any truly gratifying social function includes the possibility of heated debate and some real feelings exchanged, real things happening outside your comfort zone, not politeness theater that reassures us we are the betters in this society. And that’s all to common thinking nowadays, that we are agreeable and therfore the best thing you can be, like thats what polite type dicks/assholes are honestly. And there’s a reason you turn to online spaces to validate yourselves. Because people dont actually like you enough IRL. And you want to get social stuff done here. Likely to just exchange prefab thinking which is OK. But they want to moderate Piefed to keep it ‘whitewashed’ and that’s insulting to human intelligence and experience IMHO

              Its not your dinner party just because its your server. And if that’s why you made it. Then I think that’s self-centered, self-masturbatory and generally uncool shit instead the awesome federated space filled with reasonably unfiltered ideas that it was supposed to have been/could have been.

              Semi moderated spaces are wonderful. If its not actually bad don’t worry about it type deal. Learn to ignore, filter and move on. Just like real life. Ive reported like 3 posts total and I’ve had death threats levied and some insane people saying some intentionally horrible shit. OK, oh well, learned some shit about myself or something outside, got stronger, moved on a better more capable person. Part of life. Its not going away because you removed it from the public forum. I feel like unless its really bad. It should be witnessed. Someone got hurt by that? How much? Really? Or is it just playing into some newfound posturing contest type thing? Because that just creates a new power structure, one where to be hurt tactically in order to invalidate or validate the discussion accordingly is used and abused. Overprotection comes with serious downsides, it feels like people here dont understand this concept. You will NEVER be able to handle or win power over yourself or the world it by hiding away from what it is.

              So I appreciate the clarity but I still don’t approve of the sentiment and frankly neither should you. It alienates like 50 percent of the world and all the contributions negative and inflammatory people can make (which is plenty, truly.)

              Ive needed people to hammer into me, call me on my bullshit, and not elate just cause its perceptually harmful to my wellbeing. That’s the point. It hurt. I have to adjust or accept being a plaything for those that will do that for whatever reasons. And that’s no way to conduct yourself honestly. And many others will need that to grow and overcome things (trauma bullshit, groupthink bs, propaganda bs et al.)

              I understand wanting to make safe space for people to be in but GYATT DAMN were past the point of that utility and that being good when you start talking about making some voices (negative ones, less visible by DESIGN)

              People need to be able to make social mistakes and/or be assholes and get called on it and to leave it up as an example, not simply delete it and def not hide away from that all the time. Its helpful if people can learn to perceive things like that and toughen up so that the world doesn’t hurt us as much and we can contribute better as a member of civilization. Negative people are part of the world and have plenty to say btw. I LOVE to see those kinds of comments so this is strait bs from that POV. You can jerk off each other as much as you want but thats still gonna be true at the end of the day, and probably forever.

              Guess its time to plan out a proper server and compete at that level. Cause this circlejerking shit is just a bit too like Reddit. And I have the technical skill, I just don’t want to have to put in that high a level of effort to wake people up to that I guess.

              Sort of sorry for the essay here. Sort of not. Obviously felt it was necessary. Not all positivity is actually good positivity. And I think negative people and down voters should be equal on their own merits (tho with moderating decisions it might be considered it should almost always be by comment as well as context aware. Not just to label them as a “bad person” so your not allowed to be here type groupthinking bullshit) Each comment moderated equally on its own merits. Always and forever. (unless specifically necessary due to some incredibly remarkable circumstance and even then be SUPER careful because otherwise you miss out on the other HALF the world that will still impact your everyday life whether you understand it/that, or witness it/that, or not.

              Especially for the younger ones still trying to figure it out, its better to understand wtf is going on out there then to be caught by surprise or be unable to participate in the world because they can’t handle it as a result of this cowardice. Its not doing the world any favors. Keep the actual bots out. Leave the negativity in as long as its not an actual hazard.

              • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
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                17 hours ago

                yes but these stats highlight those that are only participating or creating heated debates. users that are consistently downvoted, but also users who are giving lots of downvotes