No, I absolutely show up, to protests, organizing, and other real-life methods of gaining real change and growing organizational power. It’s not that voting doesn’t work because Marxists don’t vote, it’s that Marxists don’t emphasize voting because we know it doesn’t work.
Very nice that you are an outlier, but that does not change my point in the slightest.
Consider this. Installing Linux is rather easy, but you do have to make an installer. Most people won’t and that becomes a filter. If you can’t get people to care enough to vote they are very likely not going to do anything else.
it’s that Marxists don’t emphasize voting because we know it doesn’t work.
enjoy losing out on more influence at the discussion table.
To the contrary, this is the mainstream Marxist opinion. You’re fighting strawmen.
Consider this. Installing Linux is rather easy, but you do have to make an installer. Most people won’t and that becomes a filter. If you can’t get people to care enough to vote they are very likely not going to do anything else.
We don’t need everyone to join the communist party. Instead, we need the party to gain the trust of the people and become the people’s chosen party.
This method is tried and true.
enjoy losing out on more influence at the discussion table.
You haven’t proven this, and are more proving my point. If you personally are not organizing in real life, and instead just voting and hoping other people do all of the hard work for you, then you aren’t doing anything at all.
What proof do you need that a massive and visible movement will have influence? That group being able to coordinate to show up for an election is also a demonstration that they can show up for other events like protests and strikes. It also shows the movement that they do infact have the strength. It shows the opposition that you do in fact have to be taken seriously. Like I have said all along, elections help build credibility. Not sure what proof you need on such an obvious statement.
You haven’t proven that electoralism is a viable way to do so. Strikes, protests, unionizing, and agitating all show strength, and PSL as an example does try to run candidates specifically to prove electoralism does not work.
If you personally are not organizing in real life, and instead just voting and hoping other people do all of the hard work for you, then you aren’t doing anything at all.
You’ve been arguing against Marxists for not doing enough, though, because we correctly recognize that voting will not bring change. If you personally are not organizing in real life, and instead just voting and hoping other people do all of the hard work for you, then you aren’t doing anything at all.
You’ve been arguing against Marxists for not doing enough
I am saying that they don’t help contribute much to overall leftist movements and their lack of willingness to at least vote helps minimize our overall impacts as well. Like you said it happens ever 2years and you can’t spare an evening for it? Are you that busy… and still have not much to show for it?
We can do more than one thing at a time and it is foolish to ignore elections completely.
I am saying that they don’t help contribute much to overall leftist movements
How so? The overwhelming majority of groups that have succeeded in establishing socialism have been Marxists. No electoralist progressives have been capable of establishing socialism and solidifying it, ever.
and their lack of willingness to at least vote helps minimize our overall impacts as well
Marxists do vote, though. As I already proved, PSL runs campaigns. Marxists do not think it is useful for anything other than exposure, however, which is why Marxists stress how important it is to actually do stuff like organizing.
Like you said it happens ever 2years and you can’t spare an evening for it?
If someone can’t, there’s no reason to scold them for it, as it doesn’t make a practical difference.
Are you that busy… and still have not much to show for it?
I don’t know what you mean by this, Marxists have established socialism in numerous countries and control the largest economy in the world by PPP. This is far more than any electoralist has achieved.
We can do more than one thing at a time and it is foolish to ignore elections completely.
Nobody is saying to, though, just that electione cannot bring positive change.
If you personally are not organizing in real life, and instead just voting and hoping other people do all of the hard work for you, then you aren’t doing anything at all.
No, I absolutely show up, to protests, organizing, and other real-life methods of gaining real change and growing organizational power. It’s not that voting doesn’t work because Marxists don’t vote, it’s that Marxists don’t emphasize voting because we know it doesn’t work.
Very nice that you are an outlier, but that does not change my point in the slightest.
Consider this. Installing Linux is rather easy, but you do have to make an installer. Most people won’t and that becomes a filter. If you can’t get people to care enough to vote they are very likely not going to do anything else.
enjoy losing out on more influence at the discussion table.
To the contrary, this is the mainstream Marxist opinion. You’re fighting strawmen.
We don’t need everyone to join the communist party. Instead, we need the party to gain the trust of the people and become the people’s chosen party.
This method is tried and true.
You haven’t proven this, and are more proving my point. If you personally are not organizing in real life, and instead just voting and hoping other people do all of the hard work for you, then you aren’t doing anything at all.
What proof do you need that a massive and visible movement will have influence? That group being able to coordinate to show up for an election is also a demonstration that they can show up for other events like protests and strikes. It also shows the movement that they do infact have the strength. It shows the opposition that you do in fact have to be taken seriously. Like I have said all along, elections help build credibility. Not sure what proof you need on such an obvious statement.
You haven’t proven that electoralism is a viable way to do so. Strikes, protests, unionizing, and agitating all show strength, and PSL as an example does try to run candidates specifically to prove electoralism does not work.
If you personally are not organizing in real life, and instead just voting and hoping other people do all of the hard work for you, then you aren’t doing anything at all.
I didn’t say its the only way. We should be doing more than one thing at a time you know?
You’ve been arguing against Marxists for not doing enough, though, because we correctly recognize that voting will not bring change. If you personally are not organizing in real life, and instead just voting and hoping other people do all of the hard work for you, then you aren’t doing anything at all.
I am saying that they don’t help contribute much to overall leftist movements and their lack of willingness to at least vote helps minimize our overall impacts as well. Like you said it happens ever 2years and you can’t spare an evening for it? Are you that busy… and still have not much to show for it?
We can do more than one thing at a time and it is foolish to ignore elections completely.
How so? The overwhelming majority of groups that have succeeded in establishing socialism have been Marxists. No electoralist progressives have been capable of establishing socialism and solidifying it, ever.
Marxists do vote, though. As I already proved, PSL runs campaigns. Marxists do not think it is useful for anything other than exposure, however, which is why Marxists stress how important it is to actually do stuff like organizing.
If someone can’t, there’s no reason to scold them for it, as it doesn’t make a practical difference.
I don’t know what you mean by this, Marxists have established socialism in numerous countries and control the largest economy in the world by PPP. This is far more than any electoralist has achieved.
Nobody is saying to, though, just that electione cannot bring positive change.
If you personally are not organizing in real life, and instead just voting and hoping other people do all of the hard work for you, then you aren’t doing anything at all.