Ok just to preface I am not amerikkkan so outside looking on on your many issues.
But genuine question how do you see an ml? Can you read their mind? Or do you expect them to label themselves as such on a name tag or sign? What of the people who are for all intents and purposes ml but simply don’t take on the label for one reason or another? Feels like you’re making a lot of assumptions based on vibes.
Also another question. Voting isn’t just voting under your system as I understand it. It’s a multi year process of canvassing and related work. So if bourgeois-democracy has been shown to be a dead end repeatedly throughout history it feels like wasting the hundreds of hours to prep and do it is a real misallocation of resources no?
Spreading agit-prop, showing up for “protests” (parades in the American case from what I’ve seen (this is a whole separate tangent I could go on)) and generally teaching arming and doing socialist work seems much more valuable use of time. Not hyper familiar with American orgs so I would defer to the likes of cowbee to explain in detail what the orgs are actually doing with the saved resources.
Well the server you are on ends in .ml to mean marxist lenninist, so yeah they are kind of labeled.
Also another question. Voting isn’t just voting under your system as I understand it. It’s a multi year process of canvassing and related work. So if bourgeois-democracy has been shown to be a dead end repeatedly throughout history it feels like wasting the hundreds of hours to prep and do it is a real misallocation of resources no?
Im not going to repeat too much, but you can read more with my chat with @[email protected] on here. You do make a good point. It is a marathon and those take prep, but so does everything else we are doing. You are going to be reaching out and canvasing for your community food bank, your protests, and strikes. You don’t have to go all out with spending money, but formalizing yourself into your own party, which we should, marks us as real players and able to make an unset election if we are not taken into some consideration.
Outside of elections we still have some formal places to coordinate our outreach and keep putting our name out there.
@[email protected] makes it out like I am saying we should only vote, but note I am not saying that. I am saying that ignoring elections is foolish of us.
MLs would want to build credibility of their movement and they would be advertising who they are. When they houthis walk the talk and lob missiles at Israel or ships they are clear that it was them and why they are doing what they are. That helps bolster their movement and recruit more people to do even more.
If you are the group doing the action you want it known so that you can keep growing.
An important distinction here is that Ansar Allah is a militant group while “ml” is simply a political descriptor. There is no group or party called ml. ML’s make up a large portion of communist party and other groups membership alongside others who describe themselves with other labels.
Weather they are militant or simply political groups doesn’t change what I wrote. Do MLs not want others to see they are the group that is walking the talk and get more people to join in? I don’t imagine they want to have such a short reach.
No you’re not understanding what I’m saying. “ML” is not a group in the fashion of Ansar Allah or Hamas or so on. It’s a descriptor applied to an individual who is then a member of a group with others who may or may not also fit that descriptor. That group then does things and takes credit as a group.
@[email protected] makes it out like I am saying we should only vote, but note I am not saying that. I am saying that ignoring elections is foolish of us.
But nobody is saying we should ignore elections. We are saying elections cannot get positive change. This is a massive difference, yet you act like it’s the same.
And yet you put so much effort into telling me why you are not going to help us get the left most candidate possible. You’re the one effectively saying we should ignore elections.
No, I’m saying you’re fighting a losing battle by thinking you can get a left candidate through, so the way you treat elections should be to highlight the impossibility of getting a left candidate through so as to encourage actual activism.
No one is arguing that we shouldn’t, which is my point. Are you allergic to actually engaging with the points at hand, rather than consistently making them up to argue against?
PSL is the focus, and PSL is an ML party. Many of the groups mentioned are front groups, PSL has many, like CODEPINK and the ANSWER coalition. PSL also coordinates with other groups to more effectively push for change, rather than doing everything itself.
I don’t see mls driving out ICE from MN. Why would they? They can’t even be bothered to vote; much less something that takes even more effort.
Ok just to preface I am not amerikkkan so outside looking on on your many issues.
But genuine question how do you see an ml? Can you read their mind? Or do you expect them to label themselves as such on a name tag or sign? What of the people who are for all intents and purposes ml but simply don’t take on the label for one reason or another? Feels like you’re making a lot of assumptions based on vibes.
Also another question. Voting isn’t just voting under your system as I understand it. It’s a multi year process of canvassing and related work. So if bourgeois-democracy has been shown to be a dead end repeatedly throughout history it feels like wasting the hundreds of hours to prep and do it is a real misallocation of resources no?
Spreading agit-prop, showing up for “protests” (parades in the American case from what I’ve seen (this is a whole separate tangent I could go on)) and generally teaching arming and doing socialist work seems much more valuable use of time. Not hyper familiar with American orgs so I would defer to the likes of cowbee to explain in detail what the orgs are actually doing with the saved resources.
Well the server you are on ends in .ml to mean marxist lenninist, so yeah they are kind of labeled.
Im not going to repeat too much, but you can read more with my chat with @[email protected] on here. You do make a good point. It is a marathon and those take prep, but so does everything else we are doing. You are going to be reaching out and canvasing for your community food bank, your protests, and strikes. You don’t have to go all out with spending money, but formalizing yourself into your own party, which we should, marks us as real players and able to make an unset election if we are not taken into some consideration.
Outside of elections we still have some formal places to coordinate our outreach and keep putting our name out there.
@[email protected] makes it out like I am saying we should only vote, but note I am not saying that. I am saying that ignoring elections is foolish of us.
Didn’t really answer my main question since that doesn’t really apply in the situation described.
I see.
MLs would want to build credibility of their movement and they would be advertising who they are. When they houthis walk the talk and lob missiles at Israel or ships they are clear that it was them and why they are doing what they are. That helps bolster their movement and recruit more people to do even more.
If you are the group doing the action you want it known so that you can keep growing.
An important distinction here is that Ansar Allah is a militant group while “ml” is simply a political descriptor. There is no group or party called ml. ML’s make up a large portion of communist party and other groups membership alongside others who describe themselves with other labels.
Weather they are militant or simply political groups doesn’t change what I wrote. Do MLs not want others to see they are the group that is walking the talk and get more people to join in? I don’t imagine they want to have such a short reach.
No you’re not understanding what I’m saying. “ML” is not a group in the fashion of Ansar Allah or Hamas or so on. It’s a descriptor applied to an individual who is then a member of a group with others who may or may not also fit that descriptor. That group then does things and takes credit as a group.
But nobody is saying we should ignore elections. We are saying elections cannot get positive change. This is a massive difference, yet you act like it’s the same.
And yet you put so much effort into telling me why you are not going to help us get the left most candidate possible. You’re the one effectively saying we should ignore elections.
No, I’m saying you’re fighting a losing battle by thinking you can get a left candidate through, so the way you treat elections should be to highlight the impossibility of getting a left candidate through so as to encourage actual activism.
Do it anyway.
No one is arguing that we shouldn’t, which is my point. Are you allergic to actually engaging with the points at hand, rather than consistently making them up to argue against?
I am engaging at the same level you are.
Here is PSL organizing strikes and protests to kick ICE out of MN. Stop fighting strawmen.
Many groups are mentioned. Its not clear they are all mls.
PSL is the focus, and PSL is an ML party. Many of the groups mentioned are front groups, PSL has many, like CODEPINK and the ANSWER coalition. PSL also coordinates with other groups to more effectively push for change, rather than doing everything itself.