- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Some of you need to watch this video, and hang your head in shame.
Dylan Taylor has been receiving constant harassment, including threats to his life and safety, for actions done collectively by SystemD. The article by Sam Bent was explictly mentioned as part of the harassment campaign, and rightfully so.
I don’t think enough people realize that this is catastrophically bad. It’ll discourage people from becoming open source developers, it’ll discourage people from using Linux, and it’ll discourage legislators from taking the Linux community seriously.
If you ever wished ill upon another human being for complying with a relatively inconsequential law, you are better off never touching a computer again. The Linux community has collectively gone so far beyond what is acceptable here.
Poettering closed the pr that was reverting this age field. What happens is adding more and more control in the future to conform to whatever idiotic laws someone might make. Should we then also implement a filter for what you type online to conform with Russian law about calling their war “SVO”? Its their law after all, so why not make the rest of the world conform? Its already years older then this age verification?
Slippery slope
Also?
There is no filter here so the comparison isn’t valid.
If we’re just playing hypotheticals, turn the situation around. What if some Russian state program was required to run on every machine and if it detected people not in compliance with the law it updated their location field to say ‘jail’. Should we then remove the location field?
According to the guy doing birth date pr, we should pre-emptively comply, so yeah… how about enforcing bans on promotion of LGBT propaganda that has been law in Russia since 2013? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_Russia#National_laws
Oh I know, lets introduce a field that stores an array of your nationalities, so any app developer can request your nationalities and adequately fine you for spreading illegal content online if you are Russian citizen. After all you can do that using a linux machine, so we gotta identify this now too. And the law also applies to foreigners. This law has been in place far longer than California or BR one. Who gets to pick and mix which laws apply and which don’t? But wait its okay its just an optional array, you don’t have to use it…
Do you now see how insanely dumb this is? I am neither in Russia or USA, why should I have to put up with a censoring mechanism?
In this hypothetical situation, why are you choosing to install software that does this? This software could just as easily store the data in a flat text file in your .config directory, it doesn’t need systemd in order to exist. Systemd choosing to not add those fields would not prevent the software from existing.
In any hypothetical situation where you’re forced to use some hypothetical privacy invading software, that software would still be able to do everything exactly the same even if it has to store your information outside of systemd.
Not having a field in systemd doesn’t mean that the data can’t be stored, it just means that the data has to be stored in a text file instead.
Systemd also has fields to store your realName and location. That same hypothetical situation applies to that data too. Your REAL NAME gives much more information about you than your birthDate and the location field is big enough to store your exact GPS coordinates. Like birthDate, these fields are not a problem (they’ve existed since the 60s) if you don’t install software that uses them.
If you don’t want software that tracks your location, don’t install software that tracks your location. If you don’t want software that requires your real name, then don’t install software that requires your real name.
If you don’t want software that requires your birthDate for age verification, then don’t install software that requires your birthDate for age verification.
Its not a hypothetical situation, it is happening, although right now to mobile phones and tablets if we stick with Russia example. Il let you envision what direction this is going to. But hey its a law. There are linux tablets out there, should maybe they add this pre-installed app?
https://brusselssignal.eu/2025/08/russia-orders-pre-installed-app-on-all-domestic-mobile-phones-and-tablets/
By the way that law is there since 2025. Its pretty obvious that we should pre-emptively comply?
That is my plan when we know the position of other distributions, I will be moving to one that does not use systemd. My argument with this is that the reasons for this change are clearly to comply with local laws that don’t affect majority of the system users. There is no need in this change to be global. It should not exist.
You haven’t shown how this would be prevented if systemd didn’t store birthDate.
You, and I, are no more affected by this field than we have been affected by the realName or location fields which have existed for decades. The field doesn’t do anything unless you choose to run software that uses it.
If you’re going to swap init systems because of this change then you understand my point about choice. If you think this field is bad, you can choose to not install systemd. If you use systemd and think the field is bad you can choose to not install software that uses the field.
I think the age verification laws are pointless and damaging, but systemd isn’t the battleground to fight that battle and, most importantly, people who are engaged in a harassment campaign against this developer are completely in the wrong.
rejecting the revert is completely separate from accepting additional age-check / mass-surveillance PRs, you know this and you are being willfully ignorant
I would be very upset and very surprised if hypothetical follow-up PRs were merged into systemd, and I’m betting they will be rejected
How is it different? The ready acceptance of additional fields specifically for age verification is clearly proof enough that any further bullshit will be accepted just as quickly. PR description clearly outlines it is for the sole purpose of age verification…