Arch isn’t necessarily unstable or “dreadful”. It’s a distro that requires the user to know what they’re doing and to be a tinkerer by nature. Whether this is a feature or a downside is dependent on the user.
But I agree with you, recommending an Arch based distro to someone who is not a tinkerer and just wants to use the PC - which is the vast majority of PC users - is a mistake.
I am exaggerating for effect, as all of my Arch experiences (never being able to pass the installer without a fatal error or showstopper) are all I know. Its quite vexing that getting other distros installed and configured is easy for me.
I do recognize the power of and capabilities of the distro. Yet, its never been at my fingertips; I must not know the soft, gentle latin curses required to make an Arch install successful.
I even tried to install EndeavourOS and CachyOS. To be met with failure and the need to retreat to another distro.
I heard cachy was better than average arch in complexity. I am very new to Linux with minimal computer skills and have been very happy with bazzite but most of my friends I try to convert are cachy loyalists
CachyOS is still going to demand more from you than Bazzite in terms of computer skills…Manual interventions (because the Arch Team cannot help themselves but move too fucking fast). Not like I can complain about that, given I have openSUSE Tumbleweed installed and am in SELinux range.
Bazzite is nice, as it can be as simple or as complex as you’d like!
I’d recommend Ubuntu or Mint for most new users; straight up Debian only in cases when the user don’t need the latest or greatest in terms of updated packages. As Debian is great, I’ve used it as extensively as Ubuntu…
However, Debian is built against older drivers and kernel, making it stable, if not a bit stale.
Ubuntu is a bit fresher with a higher kernel version (packages can still be behind something like openSUSE or Arch, Debian based distro truth). However, flatpaks allow for more recent software versions!
I install most of my software via Flatpak and Snap anyway, so I don’t need the latest and greatest in terms of apt packages, and Debian brings the benefit of a rock solid base.
I agree, so many people disregard Debian, but if you’re not gaming and don’t need to keep up with the latest things - Debian is rock solid and most of your packages you can just use flatpak. For the majority of daily users who aren’t gaming, I think it’s a super solid choice.
i don’t recommend ubuntu anymore. recently tried it on my laptop and holy hell it’s bad. couldn’t install flatpaks and the only way to install from repo was to use terminal. couldn’t get any version of steam to work at all. and I’ve been a linux user for years now…
also for some reason mint wouldn’t install on the same thinkpad, the installer wouldn’t boot at all, just gave some grub message. also fedora was no success, the usb media wasn’t recognized. ultramarine finally worked even though it’s just fedora with tweaks. some say it’s a bad thing to have tons of distros, but for me it’s been a blessing. one distro won’t work for every pc.
I was pretty successful doing the terminal commands necessary to make flatpaks work on Ubuntu in recent memory, as out of the box the distro is Snap centric. Its odd you had so many issues on a fresh install of Ubuntu. Oof, sounds like my legendary problems with Arch.
Yeah, Mint requires some workarounds on older hardware. Its possible, but, probably not worth it unless you’ve got a burning desire to use Mint on that hardware.
i looked up multiple guides to enable flatpaks and all i achieved was that i could install them from terminal, but the apps never actually appeared so i couldn’t run them.
took me a while to realize the default store is snap only, but i couldn’t install another store either (can’t remember why). if i wasn’t so pissed i probably could’ve figured it out, but steam not working was too much of a dealbreaker that it wasn’t worth the effort
Something fundamental must have been wrong with your install and you needed to do a total reinstallation of Ubuntu. As personally I had no issues with that, I was able to install the Flatpak for Warehouse and then used Warehouse to install/manage other flatpaks (I prefer that over installing yet another store).
Cachy is great for newbies. There’s no tweaking required, at least not more than mint. The AUR has all your weird niche programs you had on windows that apt and flatpak don’t have. It just works out of the box.
So you say, but, the installer…Man that thing doesn’t want to work with my system (even with secure boot off). It was the one that had the most failures with not creating a boot record, failing to install the Linux kernel, or the NVIDIA drivers. Other distros have very polished and sleek installer experiences (rarely issues as a bonus). CachyOS, in my personal experience I don’t find it to be a good one. On paper, it is (I did a lot of reading to figure out how to get CachyOS installed).
Yeah, well there is a first time for everything! I am the person that any arch installer fails for, EndeavourOS was probably the most infuriating failure…As it wouldn’t automatically set-up my drives and told me to do it manually. I try that and GPT keeps changing my allotted GBs to every partition, it’s a thing for me to find every problem.
I’ve been using Kubuntu though for awhile on all but 2 of my systems, my NAS and my main rig. I’m testing CachyOS though and I’m seeing no issues so far.
Of course once I’ve got KDE up it all looks like it should lol
It’s always a matter of time with Arch…Always. Hell, the damned thing wouldn’t install the 4 times that I tried. (checks notes) Failed to install the boot loader, fatal issue with installing the OS, failed with installing the kernel twice. You got lucky, I swear Arch (LOL) hears the mad shit I talk and readies the mortar to blast my chosen installer with condensed malice.
Any other distro and it’s installed within 9 to 15 minutes, then I’m ready to customize…
First Arch based distro I used was Manjaro. Served me well for the time despite the criticism, but I had a lots and lots of configuration to do for my needs, specially as a nooby. Since moved to CachyOS after the latest Manjaro debacle and said fuck that shit.
Was pleased that CachyOS was pretty much ready for my needs out of the box.
I’ve developed a deep appreciation for openSUSE Tumbleweed as a rolling release, that gives me more up to date repos for software and packages.
No real struggles save for me being a goose on the loose and doing something “that seemed fine”, but didn’t work like it was intended. ROFL or SELinux being its strange self after an update. That was easy to fix with an auto touch command and a few others (forgot to document).
LMAO Cursing your friends isn’t nice, CachyOS is for those that are comfortable with Linux…And the dreaded Arch.
Arch isn’t necessarily unstable or “dreadful”. It’s a distro that requires the user to know what they’re doing and to be a tinkerer by nature. Whether this is a feature or a downside is dependent on the user.
But I agree with you, recommending an Arch based distro to someone who is not a tinkerer and just wants to use the PC - which is the vast majority of PC users - is a mistake.
PS: I use EndeavourOS btw
I am exaggerating for effect, as all of my Arch experiences (never being able to pass the installer without a fatal error or showstopper) are all I know. Its quite vexing that getting other distros installed and configured is easy for me.
I do recognize the power of and capabilities of the distro. Yet, its never been at my fingertips; I must not know the soft, gentle latin curses required to make an Arch install successful.
I even tried to install EndeavourOS and CachyOS. To be met with failure and the need to retreat to another distro.
I heard cachy was better than average arch in complexity. I am very new to Linux with minimal computer skills and have been very happy with bazzite but most of my friends I try to convert are cachy loyalists
CachyOS is still going to demand more from you than Bazzite in terms of computer skills…Manual interventions (because the Arch Team cannot help themselves but move too fucking fast). Not like I can complain about that, given I have openSUSE Tumbleweed installed and am in SELinux range.
Bazzite is nice, as it can be as simple or as complex as you’d like!
I am loving, loving KDE and Bazzite. It feels like such a mature operating system compared to ol’ Windows :D
It is. Fedora is on version 44
Oh yeah? Windows 98 will blow you out of the water!
Better than normal Arch I guess… idk I would give beginners Mint, Ubuntu or maybe Debian.
I’d recommend Ubuntu or Mint for most new users; straight up Debian only in cases when the user don’t need the latest or greatest in terms of updated packages. As Debian is great, I’ve used it as extensively as Ubuntu…
However, Debian is built against older drivers and kernel, making it stable, if not a bit stale.
Ubuntu is a bit fresher with a higher kernel version (packages can still be behind something like openSUSE or Arch, Debian based distro truth). However, flatpaks allow for more recent software versions!
I install most of my software via Flatpak and Snap anyway, so I don’t need the latest and greatest in terms of apt packages, and Debian brings the benefit of a rock solid base.
I agree, so many people disregard Debian, but if you’re not gaming and don’t need to keep up with the latest things - Debian is rock solid and most of your packages you can just use flatpak. For the majority of daily users who aren’t gaming, I think it’s a super solid choice.
i don’t recommend ubuntu anymore. recently tried it on my laptop and holy hell it’s bad. couldn’t install flatpaks and the only way to install from repo was to use terminal. couldn’t get any version of steam to work at all. and I’ve been a linux user for years now…
also for some reason mint wouldn’t install on the same thinkpad, the installer wouldn’t boot at all, just gave some grub message. also fedora was no success, the usb media wasn’t recognized. ultramarine finally worked even though it’s just fedora with tweaks. some say it’s a bad thing to have tons of distros, but for me it’s been a blessing. one distro won’t work for every pc.
I was pretty successful doing the terminal commands necessary to make flatpaks work on Ubuntu in recent memory, as out of the box the distro is Snap centric. Its odd you had so many issues on a fresh install of Ubuntu. Oof, sounds like my legendary problems with Arch.
Yeah, Mint requires some workarounds on older hardware. Its possible, but, probably not worth it unless you’ve got a burning desire to use Mint on that hardware.
i looked up multiple guides to enable flatpaks and all i achieved was that i could install them from terminal, but the apps never actually appeared so i couldn’t run them.
took me a while to realize the default store is snap only, but i couldn’t install another store either (can’t remember why). if i wasn’t so pissed i probably could’ve figured it out, but steam not working was too much of a dealbreaker that it wasn’t worth the effort
Something fundamental must have been wrong with your install and you needed to do a total reinstallation of Ubuntu. As personally I had no issues with that, I was able to install the Flatpak for Warehouse and then used Warehouse to install/manage other flatpaks (I prefer that over installing yet another store).
Cachy is great for newbies. There’s no tweaking required, at least not more than mint. The AUR has all your weird niche programs you had on windows that apt and flatpak don’t have. It just works out of the box.
So you say, but, the installer…Man that thing doesn’t want to work with my system (even with secure boot off). It was the one that had the most failures with not creating a boot record, failing to install the Linux kernel, or the NVIDIA drivers. Other distros have very polished and sleek installer experiences (rarely issues as a bonus). CachyOS, in my personal experience I don’t find it to be a good one. On paper, it is (I did a lot of reading to figure out how to get CachyOS installed).
That’s unfortunate. I have gotten 3 of my non-Linux friends to install it and everything “just worked”, I hadn’t heard of any issues like that before.
Yeah, well there is a first time for everything! I am the person that any arch installer fails for, EndeavourOS was probably the most infuriating failure…As it wouldn’t automatically set-up my drives and told me to do it manually. I try that and GPT keeps changing my allotted GBs to every partition, it’s a thing for me to find every problem.
I’ve only recently dipped into it
I’ve been using Kubuntu though for awhile on all but 2 of my systems, my NAS and my main rig. I’m testing CachyOS though and I’m seeing no issues so far.
Of course once I’ve got KDE up it all looks like it should lol
It’s always a matter of time with Arch…Always. Hell, the damned thing wouldn’t install the 4 times that I tried. (checks notes) Failed to install the boot loader, fatal issue with installing the OS, failed with installing the kernel twice. You got lucky, I swear Arch (LOL) hears the mad shit I talk and readies the mortar to blast my chosen installer with condensed malice.
Any other distro and it’s installed within 9 to 15 minutes, then I’m ready to customize…
First Arch based distro I used was Manjaro. Served me well for the time despite the criticism, but I had a lots and lots of configuration to do for my needs, specially as a nooby. Since moved to CachyOS after the latest Manjaro debacle and said fuck that shit.
Was pleased that CachyOS was pretty much ready for my needs out of the box.
This is what I always hear, but Arch eludes me…
I’ve developed a deep appreciation for openSUSE Tumbleweed as a rolling release, that gives me more up to date repos for software and packages.
No real struggles save for me being a goose on the loose and doing something “that seemed fine”, but didn’t work like it was intended. ROFL or SELinux being its strange self after an update. That was easy to fix with an auto touch command and a few others (forgot to document).