Unfortunately, I don’t know what data I can share, so I’ll err on the side of caution and share none 🙂. But I suppose I can share a little more general insight:
Modern “agentic” (yeah I’m tired of that word too) techniques, patterns, and tools, paired with modern LLMs allow for much more autonomy than what was available a year ago.
Are agents faster than skilled engineers per task? No, not in most cases. But they allow engineers to scale horizontally, knocking out many tasks in parallel.
That’s the performance gain: Foster autonomy for horizontal scaling. Build/optimize projects’ AGENTS.md and SKILL.md files[1].
Agents can work for some long runs (some engineers even run them overnight), given a safe environment/project with guardrails — mostly the same guardrails that human engineers have had for years: Statically typed languages, TDD, good test coverage, code reviews (both agents and human[2]), CI pipelines, etc.
They still need human engineers to operate them; the workflow is just different now, and there’s a learning curve for it.
Whether we like it or not (personally, I miss the old days), this is just how it is now. We have not even reached the peak yet. This is the least autonomous that agents will ever be.
The bigger the repo, the more important this probably is. Structure them so they don’t bloat the context windows with unnecessary info. ↩︎
I usually wait for the AI agent review cycles to settle first — no need to spend human engineering time on potential slop that will probably get fixed autonomously. ↩︎
You’ve been given evidence that people cannot trust their own perceptions of what these agents do, and you replied by telling a bunch of stories about why you think you personally can trust your perceptions. My 12-year-old did the same thing when I tried to explain this to them.
Engineers being spread thinner to manage a wider number of tasks whilst reviewing shitty LLM noise that they didn’t write is inevitably going to make horrible code that’s impossible to maintain and will cost massive amounts of time and resources in the long run.
And the idea that it allows more things to be done is just a bunch of “it makes you faster” assessments in a trenchcoat.
Agentic or not, they still have zero fidelity. Fidelity can only come from an internal model of reality that the network is comparing its inputs to, and I’m pretty sure you don’t get that without AGI.
The data we have till this point shows that they don’t help, they only create an illusion of helping. And until you can show that that has fundamentally changed, then you have to assume that the improvements you’re seeing are just improved illusions.
You’ve been given evidence that people cannot trust their own perceptions of what these agents do, and you replied by telling a bunch of stories about why you think you personally can trust your perceptions. My 12-year-old did the same thing when I tried to explain this to them.
You asked for data. I (probably) can’t give you the data, so I gave you what I could: a few things gleaned from both objective data (collected from a significant number of engineers) and my own anecdotal experience. You are free to disregard it, and I wouldn’t even blame you. There are lots of fools on the internet, and there’s a decent chance that I’m just another one 🙂.
Engineers being spread thinner to manage a wider number of tasks whilst reviewing shitty LLM noise that they didn’t write is inevitably going to make horrible code that’s impossible to maintain and will cost massive amounts of time and resources in the long run.
This was true a year ago. Even like seven months ago.
Hell, even three months ago, I would have agreed with you a LOT more than I do today – mostly because I was just forced learn these things more in-depth quite recently. “Shitty LLM noise” is a very early part of the learning curve. In a way, it’s similar to “Hello world.” Discard it and figure out how get more useful results.
In many companies that have adopted AI, engineers are still responsible for their code. Any slop in the codebase is the fault of the engineer that introduced it (and the engineer[s] that reviewed it), regardless of whether it’s hand-written or generated. So far, I have not seen anyone merge unmaintainable, “shitty LLM noise” into enterprise codebases – that would be very risky. (It probably happens in other places like Microsoft, I just haven’t seen it myself. It would be unacceptable.)
Anyway, you’ll see all this eventually, when some data gets published. I’d gain nothing by convincing anyone of this, so I won’t try 🙂.
This is just a statement of faith in your ability to judge these things accurately. Nowhere in here do I see any evidence that you’ve even considered that the reason you’ve changed your attitude towards the tech is that it’s just gotten so good at fooling people that it’s finally got you.
You don’t gain much from trying to convince me, but you could gain a lot from being more sceptical. People invented science to address the fact that our intuitive understanding doesn’t always reflect reality.
Science and the collection of objective data stops us from doing this:
There are a bunch of things that our brains just don’t understand intuitively, so we need to check our intuition against measurement. There’s no shame in that, but when it’s pointed out, then you have a chance to check yourself.
But you don’t seem to understand that. When you say:
Anyway, you’ll see all this eventually, when some data gets published.
you are demonstrating that you are the perfect mark for this stuff, because you are not reflecting on your own thought process to see where it might be failing you.
Data or you’re just getting fooled better.
Unfortunately, I don’t know what data I can share, so I’ll err on the side of caution and share none 🙂. But I suppose I can share a little more general insight:
Modern “agentic” (yeah I’m tired of that word too) techniques, patterns, and tools, paired with modern LLMs allow for much more autonomy than what was available a year ago.
Are agents faster than skilled engineers per task? No, not in most cases. But they allow engineers to scale horizontally, knocking out many tasks in parallel.
That’s the performance gain: Foster autonomy for horizontal scaling. Build/optimize projects’
AGENTS.mdandSKILL.mdfiles[1].Agents can work for some long runs (some engineers even run them overnight), given a safe environment/project with guardrails — mostly the same guardrails that human engineers have had for years: Statically typed languages, TDD, good test coverage, code reviews (both agents and human[2]), CI pipelines, etc.
They still need human engineers to operate them; the workflow is just different now, and there’s a learning curve for it.
Whether we like it or not (personally, I miss the old days), this is just how it is now. We have not even reached the peak yet. This is the least autonomous that agents will ever be.
The bigger the repo, the more important this probably is. Structure them so they don’t bloat the context windows with unnecessary info. ↩︎
I usually wait for the AI agent review cycles to settle first — no need to spend human engineering time on potential slop that will probably get fixed autonomously. ↩︎
You’ve been given evidence that people cannot trust their own perceptions of what these agents do, and you replied by telling a bunch of stories about why you think you personally can trust your perceptions. My 12-year-old did the same thing when I tried to explain this to them.
Engineers being spread thinner to manage a wider number of tasks whilst reviewing shitty LLM noise that they didn’t write is inevitably going to make horrible code that’s impossible to maintain and will cost massive amounts of time and resources in the long run.
And the idea that it allows more things to be done is just a bunch of “it makes you faster” assessments in a trenchcoat.
Agentic or not, they still have zero fidelity. Fidelity can only come from an internal model of reality that the network is comparing its inputs to, and I’m pretty sure you don’t get that without AGI.
The data we have till this point shows that they don’t help, they only create an illusion of helping. And until you can show that that has fundamentally changed, then you have to assume that the improvements you’re seeing are just improved illusions.
You asked for data. I (probably) can’t give you the data, so I gave you what I could: a few things gleaned from both objective data (collected from a significant number of engineers) and my own anecdotal experience. You are free to disregard it, and I wouldn’t even blame you. There are lots of fools on the internet, and there’s a decent chance that I’m just another one 🙂.
This was true a year ago. Even like seven months ago. Hell, even three months ago, I would have agreed with you a LOT more than I do today – mostly because I was just forced learn these things more in-depth quite recently. “Shitty LLM noise” is a very early part of the learning curve. In a way, it’s similar to “Hello world.” Discard it and figure out how get more useful results.
In many companies that have adopted AI, engineers are still responsible for their code. Any slop in the codebase is the fault of the engineer that introduced it (and the engineer[s] that reviewed it), regardless of whether it’s hand-written or generated. So far, I have not seen anyone merge unmaintainable, “shitty LLM noise” into enterprise codebases – that would be very risky. (It probably happens in other places like Microsoft, I just haven’t seen it myself. It would be unacceptable.)
Anyway, you’ll see all this eventually, when some data gets published. I’d gain nothing by convincing anyone of this, so I won’t try 🙂.
This is just a statement of faith in your ability to judge these things accurately. Nowhere in here do I see any evidence that you’ve even considered that the reason you’ve changed your attitude towards the tech is that it’s just gotten so good at fooling people that it’s finally got you.
You don’t gain much from trying to convince me, but you could gain a lot from being more sceptical. People invented science to address the fact that our intuitive understanding doesn’t always reflect reality.
Science and the collection of objective data stops us from doing this:
There are a bunch of things that our brains just don’t understand intuitively, so we need to check our intuition against measurement. There’s no shame in that, but when it’s pointed out, then you have a chance to check yourself.
But you don’t seem to understand that. When you say:
you are demonstrating that you are the perfect mark for this stuff, because you are not reflecting on your own thought process to see where it might be failing you.