I don’t support any government, but I recognize the right of the Ukranian people to defend themselves against imperial aggression.
And you specifically should be very careful about calling other people “fash” given your long history of supporting authoritarian state-capitalist regimes or worse.
Oh, but you do support a government in tangible terms because you support the war the regime is fighting and the atrocities it commits against its people. The regime literally kidnaps people off the street and forces them into fighting. You’ve openly stated many times that you support continuation of the war and that you stand on the side of a openly fascist regime. That makes you a fascist.
Also, imagine being over the age of 13 and using terms like authoritarian. 🤡
The term authoritarianism is utterly meaningless because all governments rely on coercion to maintain their authority. The state is fundamentally an instrument that’s used by the ruling class to maintain its dominance. The whole notion that political systems can be neatly categorized into authoritarian or democratic binaries is deeply infantile.
The reality is that every government derives its authority from its monopoly on legal violence. The ability to enforce laws, suppress dissent, and maintain order is derived from control over police, military, and judicial systems. Whether a government is labelled authoritarian or democratic, the fundamental basis of its power lies here. Therefore, the only meaningful questions to ask are which class interests it represents, and to what extent can it be held accountable to them.
What ultimately matters is which class controls the institutions of state violence. In capitalist democracies, the government represent the interests of the economic elites who fund political campaigns, own media outlets, and control key industries. Western public lacks the mechanisms necessary to hold the government to account, and the ruling class is disconnected from the broader population. That’s precisely what’s driving political discontent all across western sphere today. Meanwhile, in so-called authoritarian regimes, the ruling party serves the working class as seen in countries like China, Cuba, or Vietnam. Hence why there is widespread public trust in these government and they enjoy broad support from the masses.
To add to that, the whole idea of state capitalism is a misnomer. It basically says that while you have state owned enterprise, the internal capitalist relations within it remain largely the same. While that’s true, there is a fundamental difference here. Capitalism is a system where people who own capital hire workers to exploit there labor with the purpose of increasing their capital. The goal of capitalist enterprise is to create wealth for the owners with any social benefits being strictly incidental. On the other hand, the purpose of state enterprise is to provide social value. Workers in state owned companies are producing things that the society needs. They are working for their own benefit and those of others around them. Therefore, the nature of work itself is fundamentally different from actual capitalism.
I guess I shouldn’t be expecting much from somebody who equates a socialist state where means of production are publicly owned with fascism.
Nice, another vapid reply from our resident fascist troll. The reply wasn’t meant to convince you of anything since we all know exactly what you stand for. It’s to educate people on the misinformation you spread here and how to address it.
Yeah you, however in your case a good start would be needing to be able to read anything since you seem to be engaging and arguing with your eyes closed
Your arguments make it very clear that you were a lifestyle anarchist at best. Come back when you have engaged with anarchist texts a bit more, because I am not going to do it for you, nor do I have some copy-pasta ready to dump here.
Do the people of Donetsk and Luhansk have a right to defend themselves against the Banderite regime in Kiev? That’s what the modern war spiraled out from, a Banderite coup spilling into a civil war.
As for state capitalism, I don’t support Singapore or the Republic of Korea. I support socialist market economies and socialist planned economies, as I support socialism in general, and there’s a wide gulf between state capitalism and socialism when it comes to which class is on top.
If you had written this in 2014 or shortly after, I would have agreed, but a lot has happend since then.
And I think we will have to agree to disagree about a self-proclaimed “vanguard” or party functionaries representing the working class in any shape or form.
Sure, a lot has indeed happened. I don’t think it invalidates my question.
Vanguards do not proclaim themselves as such, they become them through popular support from the people. This is not mere tautology, a vanguard cannot succeed in its aims alone, it requires the rest of the proletariat to rally behind it and legitimize it. It cannot be self-legitimizing.
Which question? All people have the right to defend themselves against outside aggression. This obviously includes the people of eastern Ukraine. But the imperial war of aggression by the Russian side has long overshadowed the localized conflict that started around 2014, and by now people that didn’t agree with the Russian occupation are either dead or have fled.
And your argument about the vanguard is on the same logical level as monarchs proclaiming to be loved by their subjects 🙄 Completely circular logic that really no one buys, including people that actually live(d) under such regimes.
Do the people of Donetsk and Luhansk have a right to defend themselves against the Banderite regime in Kiev?
Russia entering the war at the request of the DPR and LPR is an extension of that question, when faced with a regime intent on ethnically cleansing the Donbass region the people of the DPR and LPR extended a request for support.
As for saying vanguard parties deriving their support from the people, I already explained this is not circular. The monarchy was a small class that wielded the power of the feudal state to keep the peasantry in line, and were thus entitled to vast riches.
Vanguard parties are formed from within the working classes, succeed in revolution only through mass revolt, and once taking political power in the hands of the working classes have the same class interests as the rest of the proletariat, that being collectivization of production and distribution in the hands of the socialist state. Administrators are wage laborers, not owners of capital, and thus are not a unique owning class but instead a subsection of the proletariat.
By the time the Russians decided to send actual forces instead of just undercover puppets, there was nothing you could even remotely call “banderite” in power in Kyiv. Because as flawed as the Ukrainian democracy might be, there were actual elections and those right-wing parties that briefly took power after 2014 had long lost it by then.
Those self proclaimed republics also didn’t have real democratic legitimisation nor was there broad support in these regions for asking the Russians to intervene.
The rest of your argument is more circular logic, and nostalgia for regimes propped up by petro-dollars in it’s later years is neither uncommon, nor does it reflect in actual voting behaviour of these very same people today (if they are allowed to vote in free and fair elections).
the Ukranian people to defend themselves against imperial aggression.
The Ukranian people want an end to the war, and it’s only the US imperial puppet regime the live under that has decided to aggressively kidnap them into vans at gunpoint instead.
Full support to the brave Ukranians who kill draft officers.
Lol, you continue to make up funny stories that have nothing to do with reality. I never “supported Rhodesia”.
you do support the fascist regime in Ukraine tho, or gonna pretend that’s also a funny story fash?
I don’t support any government, but I recognize the right of the Ukranian people to defend themselves against imperial aggression.
And you specifically should be very careful about calling other people “fash” given your long history of supporting authoritarian state-capitalist regimes or worse.
Oh, but you do support a government in tangible terms because you support the war the regime is fighting and the atrocities it commits against its people. The regime literally kidnaps people off the street and forces them into fighting. You’ve openly stated many times that you support continuation of the war and that you stand on the side of a openly fascist regime. That makes you a fascist.
Also, imagine being over the age of 13 and using terms like authoritarian. 🤡
The term authoritarianism is utterly meaningless because all governments rely on coercion to maintain their authority. The state is fundamentally an instrument that’s used by the ruling class to maintain its dominance. The whole notion that political systems can be neatly categorized into authoritarian or democratic binaries is deeply infantile.
The reality is that every government derives its authority from its monopoly on legal violence. The ability to enforce laws, suppress dissent, and maintain order is derived from control over police, military, and judicial systems. Whether a government is labelled authoritarian or democratic, the fundamental basis of its power lies here. Therefore, the only meaningful questions to ask are which class interests it represents, and to what extent can it be held accountable to them.
What ultimately matters is which class controls the institutions of state violence. In capitalist democracies, the government represent the interests of the economic elites who fund political campaigns, own media outlets, and control key industries. Western public lacks the mechanisms necessary to hold the government to account, and the ruling class is disconnected from the broader population. That’s precisely what’s driving political discontent all across western sphere today. Meanwhile, in so-called authoritarian regimes, the ruling party serves the working class as seen in countries like China, Cuba, or Vietnam. Hence why there is widespread public trust in these government and they enjoy broad support from the masses.
To add to that, the whole idea of state capitalism is a misnomer. It basically says that while you have state owned enterprise, the internal capitalist relations within it remain largely the same. While that’s true, there is a fundamental difference here. Capitalism is a system where people who own capital hire workers to exploit there labor with the purpose of increasing their capital. The goal of capitalist enterprise is to create wealth for the owners with any social benefits being strictly incidental. On the other hand, the purpose of state enterprise is to provide social value. Workers in state owned companies are producing things that the society needs. They are working for their own benefit and those of others around them. Therefore, the nature of work itself is fundamentally different from actual capitalism.
I guess I shouldn’t be expecting much from somebody who equates a socialist state where means of production are publicly owned with fascism.
Nice, another copy-pasta fan-fiction from someone that needs to read more theory 😏
Nice, another vapid reply from our resident fascist troll. The reply wasn’t meant to convince you of anything since we all know exactly what you stand for. It’s to educate people on the misinformation you spread here and how to address it.
You fool! Once again you have defeated yourself by exceeding my attention span!
Yeah you, however in your case a good start would be needing to be able to read anything since you seem to be engaging and arguing with your eyes closed
Do you have theory to suggest?
😆
Sometimes I think Lemmy needs reactions. Then I come to my senses.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/ is a good start.
I’ve read a fair bit from there, I used to be an anarchist many years ago. Do you have anything specific that’s relevant to the discussion here?
Your arguments make it very clear that you were a lifestyle anarchist at best. Come back when you have engaged with anarchist texts a bit more, because I am not going to do it for you, nor do I have some copy-pasta ready to dump here.
Dictionary: libspeak to english
Do the people of Donetsk and Luhansk have a right to defend themselves against the Banderite regime in Kiev? That’s what the modern war spiraled out from, a Banderite coup spilling into a civil war.
As for state capitalism, I don’t support Singapore or the Republic of Korea. I support socialist market economies and socialist planned economies, as I support socialism in general, and there’s a wide gulf between state capitalism and socialism when it comes to which class is on top.
If you had written this in 2014 or shortly after, I would have agreed, but a lot has happend since then.
And I think we will have to agree to disagree about a self-proclaimed “vanguard” or party functionaries representing the working class in any shape or form.
Sure, a lot has indeed happened. I don’t think it invalidates my question.
Vanguards do not proclaim themselves as such, they become them through popular support from the people. This is not mere tautology, a vanguard cannot succeed in its aims alone, it requires the rest of the proletariat to rally behind it and legitimize it. It cannot be self-legitimizing.
Which question? All people have the right to defend themselves against outside aggression. This obviously includes the people of eastern Ukraine. But the imperial war of aggression by the Russian side has long overshadowed the localized conflict that started around 2014, and by now people that didn’t agree with the Russian occupation are either dead or have fled.
And your argument about the vanguard is on the same logical level as monarchs proclaiming to be loved by their subjects 🙄 Completely circular logic that really no one buys, including people that actually live(d) under such regimes.
I was referring to this question:
Russia entering the war at the request of the DPR and LPR is an extension of that question, when faced with a regime intent on ethnically cleansing the Donbass region the people of the DPR and LPR extended a request for support.
As for saying vanguard parties deriving their support from the people, I already explained this is not circular. The monarchy was a small class that wielded the power of the feudal state to keep the peasantry in line, and were thus entitled to vast riches.
Vanguard parties are formed from within the working classes, succeed in revolution only through mass revolt, and once taking political power in the hands of the working classes have the same class interests as the rest of the proletariat, that being collectivization of production and distribution in the hands of the socialist state. Administrators are wage laborers, not owners of capital, and thus are not a unique owning class but instead a subsection of the proletariat.
It isn’t even true that people living in socialist countries perceive administration as a unique class. The majority of people who lived in Eastern European socialism regret its fall, the broad majority supported their government and played an active role in running society.
By the time the Russians decided to send actual forces instead of just undercover puppets, there was nothing you could even remotely call “banderite” in power in Kyiv. Because as flawed as the Ukrainian democracy might be, there were actual elections and those right-wing parties that briefly took power after 2014 had long lost it by then.
Those self proclaimed republics also didn’t have real democratic legitimisation nor was there broad support in these regions for asking the Russians to intervene.
The rest of your argument is more circular logic, and nostalgia for regimes propped up by petro-dollars in it’s later years is neither uncommon, nor does it reflect in actual voting behaviour of these very same people today (if they are allowed to vote in free and fair elections).
The Ukranian people want an end to the war, and it’s only the US imperial puppet regime the live under that has decided to aggressively kidnap them into vans at gunpoint instead.
Full support to the brave Ukranians who kill draft officers.
This entire argument except the being a US puppet part can be flipped to Russia
Cats can be flipped to dogs if you don’t give a shit what’s real, but most people do.