• Th4tGuyII@fedia.io
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    2 days ago

    A regular search engine just points to outside websites. But AI overviews generate “independent, new, and substantive statements” by evaluating and combining content from various third-party sites. And only Google can check those statements, the court said, “at least by comparing the underlying third-party websites with its own statements based on them.”

    Honestly this is all the reasoning you need to infer that Google should be liable. Google alone has editorial control over the summary their AI generates, not the outside sources used to generate these statements, ergo Google should be held liable for that.

    At the hearing, Google argued that users could check the linked sources themselves to verify whether the AI summary was correct. Users generally knew “that information generated with AI should not be blindly trusted,” the company claimed.

    … And you know that’s true when the best Google could muster as a defence is to say that people shouldn’t be blindly trusting the AI, which ironically means even Google thinks their AI is full of shit.

    But unfortunately for Google, not only does the court not buy that defence, but it would appear that’s contrary to how most people use the feature.

    The ruling may also have international reach, according to the court.

    I seriously hope so. Its about time companies started taking proper liability for the actions of their LLMs.

    • 🌸𝓯𝓵𝓸𝔀𝓮𝓻🌸@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      And if Google complains that it’s on the pieces of info they got from 3th parties that were wrong and name them, then the 3th parties are able to request compensation for using that info.

      • Th4tGuyII@fedia.io
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        2 days ago

        Exactly. Can’t have it both ways.

        If Google want to claim the liability falls with the source’s its pulling from, then it should be taking explicit permission to cite these sources and be paying them.

        Otherwise it’s an AI-powered editorial, and that’s on Google.

        Though personally I’d be happy with the entire system being scrapped, as it only serves to fuck over small publishers and people’s ability to search for and be critical of information.

    • slaacaa@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Every “AI” company should be (reasonably) liable for what their tools say. How is this even a novel idea?

      If a newspaper accidentaly prints false information, they have to publish a correction and might pay a fine. But if they print a front page article about making a pipe bomb, then the editor would probably get sentenced.

      This approach would be perfectly fine with LLMs. I understand the nature of the technology, but if they cannot guarantee the quality of the output, then the product is just not ready yet, and we are currently doing unpaid testing.

    • fodor@lemmy.zip
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      2 days ago

      Except that this will fuck over small companies. Because if we follow this reasoning, the next step is to debate what is AI and what’s not. And the poor folk lose that battle because of legal fees.

      I mean, hey, tell me how an automated summary is not AI. Argue that. Give me a clear legal standard… Easy to hand wave, hard to get right.

      • MyButSmellsBat@feddit.org
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        2 days ago

        I fail to understand why it should be bad for small companies.

        In my experience most small companies don’t have public AI summaries. And even if they do i still think it’s their obligation to check what they make public.

        • Sabrinamycarpet@sh.itjust.works
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          In the not so distant future just about every site will have AI summarization or QnA as a core part.

          Instead of searching through endless documentation you ask AI to trawl and give you the answer. This is undeniably useful. But if they give the wrong answer once and suddenly become liable, that’s a potential risk.

          • mabeledo@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            How is it “undeniably useful” if it has the potential of giving wrong answers?

            Also and perhaps more importantly, are these the lengths people go to avoid reading? If so, we are doomed.

            • Sabrinamycarpet@sh.itjust.works
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              23 hours ago

              Not everyone enjoys reading documentation. We don’t need to be defensive about this. We already have search that can trawl through a well maintained site.

              AI can not only go through the documentation but also translate it to layman and point to the sources.

              If it gives the wrong answer 1 in every thousand results, it is still undeniably useful. You shouldn’t blindly trust AI is common place knowledge. And it’s no different than doing a Google search for something and some times clicking into a result that is bad. The fact that that possibility exists doesn’t change the fact google is "undeniably " useful.

              • mabeledo@lemmy.world
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                22 hours ago

                I’m going to be straightforward with you and say that if someone doesn’t want to read documentation, they shouldn’t be doing the job the documentation is for.

                I’ve been bitten by AI summarizing documentation so many times, these days I refuse to use it for that purpose anymore. It’s just not worth it. It creates a loop where it wants to try things that don’t work, walk back, try something else, repeat, and spend $10 worth of tokens in the process.

                You say that I shouldn’t blindly trust AI like I shouldn’t blindly trust Google results. The difference is that AI is presented as an authoritative source in itself. Hell, most of the time LLMs don’t link sources unless explicitly asked for. And here’s the thing, if I have to go and read the actual sources, it isn’t doing anything significantly more time efficient than just text search, but it is doing it at ten times the cost.

                • Sabrinamycarpet@sh.itjust.works
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                  8 hours ago

                  I’m going to be straightforward with you and say that if someone doesn’t want to read documentation, they shouldn’t be doing the job the documentation is for.

                  That’s way too black and white. It’s a time and convenience thing. Let’s say i want to troubleshoot something on my motherboard that caused my pc to stop working. I really do not want to be reading through a 300 page manual from my phone (because my pc is not working). Search may turn up 10-20 relevant results that id have to scroll through.

                  And AI could take my query and do the work for me. Give me the link to the result they think is most relevant as well as explain it in more layman way than the manual.

                  I’m technical so I could do this without AI. But let’s take a less technical person. Now they can follow along and try as well.

                  The function is good. Its arguably the best path forward. The issue is accuracy and cost.

                  But something does not need to be accurate 100% of the time if we are all aware of it. If we wait for something to be 100% perfect nothing would ever progress.

                  And cost should only concern us on the environmental side. We should absolutely force them to fix that side of it. But price wise? Im really confused why the internet continues to bring up cost. I honestly dont care how much it costs a trillion dollar company to provide a service to us if I dont have to pay. Google, Youtube, Amazon, Netflix, all operated in the red for years and years. I don’t remember public discourse being omg how is Google going to afford to keep giving us nonshitty search.

          • Th4tGuyII@fedia.io
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            2 days ago

            A potential risk that any company implementing an AI for something as simple as a Q&A should be aware of prior to doing that.

            If they don’t want the liability, then just don’t use AI for public facing functions. Its not difficult.

          • notabot@piefed.social
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            2 days ago

            In the not so distant future just about every site will have AI summarization or QnA as a core part.

            Hopefully not, and this ruling goes some way to ensuring sense prevails. It’s a little different if the LLM providing the “AI” summarization has been trained exclusively on the contents of the site; that ensures that only the work of the site authors is used in generating the summary, which means it’s their words, and also probably less likely to hallucinate.

            Instead of searching through endless documentation you ask AI to trawl and give you the answer. This is undeniably useful.

            I deny it. The results of an LLM being used to answer a question are far too often wrong to ever be trusted. Sometimes the errors are obvious, much more often they are subtle and harder to spot, but delivered with certainty none-the-less. This ruling ensures that the ones providing the LLM summary are held liable, in the same way they would be if a human wrote the same summary.

            But if they give the wrong answer once and suddenly become liable, that’s a potential risk.

            Correct, and that is as it should be. Apply the same logic to a human written piece and you will see that.

          • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            It’s very obviously not even the tiniest bit useful and, in fact, is simply a huge liability that could be done safer and cheaper by a person.

          • asret@lemmy.zip
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            2 days ago

            There’s a difference between you making use of a tool and you publishing the results of that tool.

            Why should a vendor be able to make false claims about a product with impunity?

      • Th4tGuyII@fedia.io
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        2 days ago

        I have a feeling that the megacorporation’s AI generating false statements about smaller businesses that effectively drives customership away from them harms a lot more small businesses way more than AI-powered businesses being held to account for what their AI states as fact publically.

        (And that’s not even counting the harm Google’s AI summaries are already doing to small publishers by driving traffic away from the very websites its using as source material.)

        If a company doesn’t want the liability associated with a rogue agent making false statements, then I’ve got news for you - they don’t have to use AI. Literally nobody is forcing small private businesses to use AI for anything.

        And what @[email protected] has said is entirely true. Most small companies won’t have an AI, and those that do should still be held accountable for their AI’s public statements.

      • nyan@lemmy.cafe
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        2 days ago

        the next step is to debate what is AI and what’s not.

        Unnecessary, in my view. If you use a tool to produce something, and that something breaks a law, then you are liable, not the tool. Doesn’t matter whether it’s a hammer or an AI. If a human employed by Google had written the incorrect summary on Google’s behalf, then Google would still be liable (the difference is that the human writer might also be individually liable, depending on local law).

        Search engines received various kinds of legal immunity in many jurisdictions because they were only presenting information written by third parties outside their control. These summaries are not third-party content, and if they are libelous, the responsibility falls squarely on Google.

        • frostysauce@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          If you use a tool to produce something, and that something breaks a law, then you are liable, not the tool.

          I agree and I apply that to gun manufacturers.

      • Holytimes@sh.itjust.works
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        2 days ago

        Does it use an LLM to generate the summary. Yes or no. This is a binary. It is incredibly easy to define. It’s almost laughable that you think this is a problem.

      • nublug@piefed.blahaj.zone
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        2 days ago

        what small companies are giving users of their search engine ai overviews? why would you argue ai summaries are not ai? what the muddy waters is going on here…?

      • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
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        2 days ago

        for liability it doesn’t matter whether small company has written the summary themselves or generated it. they already had liability for what they say.