Players rave and rant about the wonders of kernel level anti cheats, and how games like Valorant barely have any cheaters compared VAC secured Counter Strike...
It’s a rootkit. When it runs it basically has complete access to your system. You’re at the mercy of the guys at Riot and pray that no one breaches their system.
You’re missing the point of what he is saying. The anti-cheat itself runs in a level with extreme access to anything on your computer. The anti-cheat is like almost all software almost certainly exploitable. You are trusting that no one will ever crack Vanguard in a way that exposes your user data, and that Riot will never change it to collect more than you think they are.
You’re 100% right. Not only can they steal data, but they could use kernel level access to make your hardware misbehave, perhaps even to the point of damage. They could probably trash a hard disk or GPU for instance. It also gives them a locally controlled device on whatever network you’re on. From there they can weaponise their new access to attack other devices on the network, or cause the network itself to fail.
It just goes to show how dangerous this is, that even a programmer and security enthusiast like myself forgets to mention a huge chunk of the possible damages.
It’s kernel-level control of your system, basically rootkit malware that you choose to infect your computer with. Keep in mind, it’s always running, whether you’re playing a game or not! By definition, it literally has more control of your system than you do signed in with your own private password. Ask yourself this: if the anti-cheat was compromised, sold, re-prioritized, bypassed by hackers or foreign interests, etc… How would you even know?
I understand that all this sounds paranoid, but remember that you chose to give it system-wide access! I likely hate online cheaters at least as much as you, but the potential security/privacy implications are far too great, not to mention the performance hit every single game with kernel-level anti-cheat suffers…
This isn’t really different from most software on your system. I can exfiltrate plenty of your data on Windows without root. And are you reviewing the source code of every application you run?
I’m not making an accusation, it’s kernel-level access. If I know where you live, have keys to your house, know your security code, can change anything in your home without you knowing, that’s a problem.
Why are you so dead-set on defending a company’s bad practices just because you like their game?
@kadu@RubberElectrons It seems you don’t understand how independent opinions in a democracy are made. It’s about privacy and the right for it. No company has the right to snuff in my life and collect private data. Everyone has secrets.
@kadu@RubberElectrons It doesn’t have to be the company itself.
Imagine the unimaginable scenario where a group of hackers gains access to the company’s network and servers and plants a malicious patch to be sent in the next update.
I wouldn’t be afraid of the company exploiting this. I would be afraid that a bug or hacker can do whatever with my computer because I gave this software root access, and it gets remotely updated, has network access and can become an amazing tool in the wrong hands.
You don’t mind giving up your privacy and system security to a company for a single game?
How is it giving up your privacy and security?
It’s a rootkit. When it runs it basically has complete access to your system. You’re at the mercy of the guys at Riot and pray that no one breaches their system.
IIRC Genshin Impact uses a similar system and a breach has already happened.
It’s a driver.
Here the attacker installed the driver after gaining remote access.
So it’s not actually anything to do with having the game installed.
But it’s still a massive problem.
You’re missing the point of what he is saying. The anti-cheat itself runs in a level with extreme access to anything on your computer. The anti-cheat is like almost all software almost certainly exploitable. You are trusting that no one will ever crack Vanguard in a way that exposes your user data, and that Riot will never change it to collect more than you think they are.
Not even about user data, this is just the side dish. You have complete control over the system and spy on, and probably even can do, whatever
You’re 100% right. Not only can they steal data, but they could use kernel level access to make your hardware misbehave, perhaps even to the point of damage. They could probably trash a hard disk or GPU for instance. It also gives them a locally controlled device on whatever network you’re on. From there they can weaponise their new access to attack other devices on the network, or cause the network itself to fail.
It just goes to show how dangerous this is, that even a programmer and security enthusiast like myself forgets to mention a huge chunk of the possible damages.
It’s kernel-level control of your system, basically rootkit malware that you choose to infect your computer with. Keep in mind, it’s always running, whether you’re playing a game or not! By definition, it literally has more control of your system than you do signed in with your own private password. Ask yourself this: if the anti-cheat was compromised, sold, re-prioritized, bypassed by hackers or foreign interests, etc… How would you even know?
I understand that all this sounds paranoid, but remember that you chose to give it system-wide access! I likely hate online cheaters at least as much as you, but the potential security/privacy implications are far too great, not to mention the performance hit every single game with kernel-level anti-cheat suffers…
Otherwise known as a driver hehe
But they’re all valid points.
This isn’t really different from most software on your system. I can exfiltrate plenty of your data on Windows without root. And are you reviewing the source code of every application you run?
It’s a problem when Riot does it, but not Nvidia?
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I’m not making an accusation, it’s kernel-level access. If I know where you live, have keys to your house, know your security code, can change anything in your home without you knowing, that’s a problem.
Why are you so dead-set on defending a company’s bad practices just because you like their game?
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Yup, so you don’t care. Lmao you literally gave away the key to your house for an uninteresting video game. Pitiful.
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Some of us wouldn’t proudly admit to doing nothing with their time, but here we are.
I’ve got important stuff on my personal machine, and it’s the principal of the thing, besides. Good luck to you, I suppose.
Fuck you
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I hope they use your PC as a botnet and steal your bank account some day when China has enough of us.
@kadu @RubberElectrons It seems you don’t understand how independent opinions in a democracy are made. It’s about privacy and the right for it. No company has the right to snuff in my life and collect private data. Everyone has secrets.
@kadu @RubberElectrons It doesn’t have to be the company itself.
Imagine the unimaginable scenario where a group of hackers gains access to the company’s network and servers and plants a malicious patch to be sent in the next update.
I wouldn’t be afraid of the company exploiting this. I would be afraid that a bug or hacker can do whatever with my computer because I gave this software root access, and it gets remotely updated, has network access and can become an amazing tool in the wrong hands.
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@kadu Duh, but leaving my front door open is really unnecessary.
I mean you do you. Thankfully I don’t care :D
You’re definitely not getting through to paranoid lemmy users lol
Then you should’ve stopped playing when you encountered the first cheater. The one that you knew was a cheater, at least.
Things like this create false sense of safety where you assume the game has less cheaters but in reality you can hardly tell.
Xbox should be plug an play. Everythig is open and viewable so you can see the malware if there is any.
Otherwise show me the driver to prove me wrong.