I often think what life in this continent would be like had there never been any colonialism. But if Europe still had contact with the native peoples and their nations through trade. How would the people here have evolved?
I reckon more than a few people there would be incentivised to play catch up and start avery fast paced industrial revolution.
Certain advancements were only enabled because of catastrophe and that the surviving population rebounded. Had Old World diseases not struck the New World, I reckon a plague would’ve hit at some point anyhow.
East Asia wasn’t struck by the plague as far as I know. It was contained to Europe, North Africa and West Asia.
EDIT: Sorry. To clarify what I mean is that maybe the had means to quarantine people and stop the spread of infections diseases. Maybe their hygiene was much better too. A lot of it was due to poor Hygiene. But yeah, maybe a pandemic could have happened like anywhere else I suppose, sooner or later.
The Black Plague was first recorded 1330s in China long before it began its migration to the West. However, you were right in the aspect that China in general had a strong administrative and bureaucratic base which allows coordinating disaster relief efforts.
Plus, the advantage of having rice means they could afford to feed citizenry very well in most cases.
Also, China as we know it today didn’t exactly exist, but it’s better to understand and obeserve the various polities that came and went during the centuries. Each would have different circumstances and administrative power in combating disasters as they happened.
Central american powers were starting to play with the Empire idea when europeans came along.
They might have had a Genghis Kang sooner or later.
Also contact by trade would have been almost as lethal as the conquest. Remember that most death were because the diseases the europeans brought with them.
You might enjoy the book 1491 a lot - it goes over what populations existed before contact, and even explores the period when people would make decisions between whether they would stay a colonial resident or join a native country - and vice versa. Turns out it was very much down to the person.
Of course, it also has the mind-blowing fact that we lost roughly 92% of the population of the Americas to disease - which is how the Europeans walked into the “New World” so easily, but also why they had to start importing slaves from Africa. The author frames it as if we just suddenly lost all of China - and laments the cultural exchange we’ve lost as a result.
10/10 read, would recommend if you like the topic.
I’ve got a lot of family in the Caribbean and it’s interesting how much of the flora and food culture has also been changed by resettlement.
Where my family is, the tradition cuisine is generally African or Indian influenced and many of the veggies and fruits were brought from these places. Even botanical gardens that are trying to create a wild food forest are doing so with mangoes, papaya, breadfruit, etc which were all Asian imports. When I go there, I’m often left wondering what these islands looked like in centuries past and what the cuisine was.
like the carribean monk seal that became extinct, the haiwain one is very endangered. i was looking at flora and fauna, so many went extinct when humans came to islands.( like giant and another solenedons which became extinct pretty recently), plus the related nosphentes which has its lineages traced back to the cretaceous.
It’s really unfortunate how humans seems to make every ecosystem homogenous. Sometimes intentionally killing things, sometimes bringing things that remind them of home (North America’s starlings and mute swans for example). I really try to maintain a garden full of plants native to my area to support local insect life, but it really feels like using a Nerf gun for a fire fight, as when I step off my property it’s invasive things everywhere.
islands are especially vulnerable to sudden changes. dodo, roridgeuz solitaire, and many other ground pigeons in the indo-pacific islands.granted carribeans had its own lineage of giant tortoises, but they were pretty much in decline since before european arrival and likely died out before it. the most recent islands was new zealand, just under 1000 years, most of the large birds went extinct.
Even Japan had colonization from the mainland peoples that drastically changed the native culture which seemed to resemble much more the American native people’s culture.
there would be things like passenger pigeons that wouldnt go extinct, plus rare plants that became extinct due to development in a specific area where it only survived.
I often think what life in this continent would be like had there never been any colonialism. But if Europe still had contact with the native peoples and their nations through trade. How would the people here have evolved?
You call this evolution. It’s hanity devolving. At least natives were free people.
I reckon more than a few people there would be incentivised to play catch up and start avery fast paced industrial revolution.
Certain advancements were only enabled because of catastrophe and that the surviving population rebounded. Had Old World diseases not struck the New World, I reckon a plague would’ve hit at some point anyhow.
I wonder…
East Asia wasn’t struck by the plague as far as I know. It was contained to Europe, North Africa and West Asia.
EDIT: Sorry. To clarify what I mean is that maybe the had means to quarantine people and stop the spread of infections diseases. Maybe their hygiene was much better too. A lot of it was due to poor Hygiene. But yeah, maybe a pandemic could have happened like anywhere else I suppose, sooner or later.
The Black Plague was first recorded 1330s in China long before it began its migration to the West. However, you were right in the aspect that China in general had a strong administrative and bureaucratic base which allows coordinating disaster relief efforts.
Plus, the advantage of having rice means they could afford to feed citizenry very well in most cases.
Also, China as we know it today didn’t exactly exist, but it’s better to understand and obeserve the various polities that came and went during the centuries. Each would have different circumstances and administrative power in combating disasters as they happened.
Oh, no doubt!
Depending on how long they would be isolated.
Central american powers were starting to play with the Empire idea when europeans came along.
They might have had a Genghis Kang sooner or later.
Also contact by trade would have been almost as lethal as the conquest. Remember that most death were because the diseases the europeans brought with them.
You might enjoy the book 1491 a lot - it goes over what populations existed before contact, and even explores the period when people would make decisions between whether they would stay a colonial resident or join a native country - and vice versa. Turns out it was very much down to the person.
Of course, it also has the mind-blowing fact that we lost roughly 92% of the population of the Americas to disease - which is how the Europeans walked into the “New World” so easily, but also why they had to start importing slaves from Africa. The author frames it as if we just suddenly lost all of China - and laments the cultural exchange we’ve lost as a result.
10/10 read, would recommend if you like the topic.
I’ve got a lot of family in the Caribbean and it’s interesting how much of the flora and food culture has also been changed by resettlement.
Where my family is, the tradition cuisine is generally African or Indian influenced and many of the veggies and fruits were brought from these places. Even botanical gardens that are trying to create a wild food forest are doing so with mangoes, papaya, breadfruit, etc which were all Asian imports. When I go there, I’m often left wondering what these islands looked like in centuries past and what the cuisine was.
like the carribean monk seal that became extinct, the haiwain one is very endangered. i was looking at flora and fauna, so many went extinct when humans came to islands.( like giant and another solenedons which became extinct pretty recently), plus the related nosphentes which has its lineages traced back to the cretaceous.
It’s really unfortunate how humans seems to make every ecosystem homogenous. Sometimes intentionally killing things, sometimes bringing things that remind them of home (North America’s starlings and mute swans for example). I really try to maintain a garden full of plants native to my area to support local insect life, but it really feels like using a Nerf gun for a fire fight, as when I step off my property it’s invasive things everywhere.
islands are especially vulnerable to sudden changes. dodo, roridgeuz solitaire, and many other ground pigeons in the indo-pacific islands.granted carribeans had its own lineage of giant tortoises, but they were pretty much in decline since before european arrival and likely died out before it. the most recent islands was new zealand, just under 1000 years, most of the large birds went extinct.
Mann’s follow-up book 1493 is equally good.
Wow!!! Ok I’m definitely reading this.
Thanks so much!
Whatever you do, don’t read Guns, Germs and Steel. It’s just fucking nonsense.
Got it. 👍
Probably using the same system that they evolved elsewhere. Humans be humans
I wonder.
Even Japan had colonization from the mainland peoples that drastically changed the native culture which seemed to resemble much more the American native people’s culture.
there would be things like passenger pigeons that wouldnt go extinct, plus rare plants that became extinct due to development in a specific area where it only survived.
Europe would be the singularly industrialized hub of the world. North America would look like Africa, South America and much of Asia.
I mean… you forget China. And most of Asia. They were already pretty advanced. They introduced math and science and philosophy to Europe.
Not to mention there were important trade routes between Europe and China. And north Africa too.
I’d bet technology would’ve made its way into central and South America where they already were pretty advanced.
Not without the colonialism.
Who colonized China?
England, So iets, US, and the CCP
Edit - I tend to be more of a Han Chinese sympathizer before the CCP made their moves post WW2