A 29-year-old passenger was arrested after allegedly refusing to sit beside a woman, citing Sharia law, before assaulting a flight attendant on a flight to Düsseldorf.
This is an extreme level of sexist discrimination, that goes against fundamental values of a modern democracy.
Well that escalated quickly. More seriously, while the man in the OP is definitely entitled, what he wanted was not inherently sexist. Having strict beliefs about cross-gender contact can lead to sexism, but isn’t that in and of itself. Most cultures out there put some limit on what unrelated men and women can do or where they can be together, and those limits can be fairly benign as long as they don’t lead people to do things like assault flight attendants.
Not accepting women as equals is NOT COMPATIBLE with democracy. If your believes rule out rights for 50% of the population, you also don’t deserve living in one. Physically attacking the female flight attendant shows this isn’t something about “beliefs about cross-gender contact”, its about seeing women as inferior.
Same tale as with fascism: total tolerance leads to the extinction of tolerance, which means we must be intolerant of people like this disgusting chud.
There must be a mechanism to remove such people from societies where they only inflict damage. Sadly simple removing his citizenship is not legal, but i’d approve of any measured approach to make him realize that living where people regardless of gender have the same rights might come at a cost that is too high to pay.
I tried to make a respond too, but Yours is probably better.
Physically attacking the female flight attendant shows this isn’t something about “beliefs about cross-gender contact”, its about seeing women as inferior.
Excellent point. 👍
Sadly simple removing his citizenship is not legal
If he has dual citizenship it is. But IMO it sucks that it has to depend on that.
Physically attacking the female flight attendant shows this isn’t something about “beliefs about cross-gender contact”, its about seeing women as inferior.
Or he could just be an entitled asshole. There’s no point in making judgements without enough information, and it’s not like being entitled justifies punching a flight attendant in the face.
People actively physically harming others aren’t “assholes”, they are criminals. The combination with his obvious believe in the inferiority of women makes it a fucking hate crime.
This is so far out I’m simply at a loss for words on how to respond!? But I will make an effort to try anyway.
The norm in a modern democracy is to treat each other as equals, and respect the personal sphere of individuals.
Of course there are limits on what people can do towards each other, like assault is not allowed, but that rule is equal for all, and is not a “sexist” rule. It does protect women against sexist assault, but it does the same for men, although the problem for women are several magnitudes bigger.
Are you really comparing sitting next to a woman would be akin to sexual assault, in a society where men and women are treated as equals?
I have to downvote you, because I don’t see a way you could have made the above comment in good faith. I reeks of apologism towards religious extremism and sexual discrimination.
You’re arguing past my point and not really addressing anything I actually said?
Are you really comparing sitting next to a woman would be akin to sexual assault, in a society where men and women are treated as equals?
No? I’m comparing it to something like hugs, which are acceptable cross-gender greetings in some places but limited to the same gender in others. That doesn’t make places where the latter holds anti-democratic. I thought I was clear enough on that, but I’m not justifying what the man in the OP did; I’m just saying jumping from that to “disrespect for democratic values” is reading more into the story than there is to it. Plain entitlement is sufficient to explain everything we see here, and there’d have been no problem had the man been more respectful about what he was trying to do (for example by looking for someone to switch seats with). This is ultimately a problem of how he went about it, not of what he was trying to do.
You’re arguing past my point and not really addressing anything I actually said?
Are you really comparing sitting next to a woman would be akin to sexual assault, in a society where men and women are treated as equals?
No? I’m comparing it to something like hugs, which are acceptable cross-gender greetings in some places but limited to the same gender in others. That doesn’t make places where the latter holds anti-democratic. I thought I was clear enough on that, but I’m not justifying what the man in the OP did; I’m just saying jumping from that to “disrespect for democratic values” is reading more into the story than there is to it. Plain entitlement is sufficient to explain everything we see here, and there’d have been no problem had the man been more respectful about what he was trying to do (for example by looking for someone to switch seats with).
No? I’m comparing it to something like hugs, which are acceptable cross-gender greetings in some places
No it’s not, not among strangers in a random situation like sitting besides each other in a plane.
But sure if both parties are OK with it, why should society be involved with a voluntary legal interaction between 2 people that consent?
Not consenting to sit beside a woman however is CLEARLY discriminatory. As is attacking the flight attendant for doing her job! It is not normal or polite behavior. It is prejudiced religious bigotry.
And anyone behaving like that can fuck right off, and live in a paradise of religious bigotry in some religiously fanatic country.
You are trying to compare crazy with normal. Religious law is based on superstition and delusions. Democracy is based on the pursuit of building a better and fairer society for all.
Democracy is the opposite of being based on religion. If you want to live under laws based on religion, you do not belong or deserve to live in a democracy.
Discrimination: the act, practice, or an instance of unfairly treating a person or group differently from other people or groups on a class or categorical basis (such as race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation)
Is this even treating someone else like anything other than yourself in the first place?*
Sitting next to someone wouldn’t provide anything. In fact, it’s quite negative.
* Well, perhaps in this case that means unfairly treating people of your own gender by increasing possibility of someone sitting next to them in certain scenarios, which would fullfil the definition of discrimination.
In this case, if there were no other seats available, simply not taking the flight would have caused no harm. Actually, it would have made one passenger who’d keep more space happy. While it could be argued the passenger got better experience unfairly, based on her gender, I doubt anyone would give that a serious thought.
Well that escalated quickly. More seriously, while the man in the OP is definitely entitled, what he wanted was not inherently sexist. Having strict beliefs about cross-gender contact can lead to sexism, but isn’t that in and of itself. Most cultures out there put some limit on what unrelated men and women can do or where they can be together, and those limits can be fairly benign as long as they don’t lead people to do things like assault flight attendants.
Not accepting women as equals is NOT COMPATIBLE with democracy. If your believes rule out rights for 50% of the population, you also don’t deserve living in one. Physically attacking the female flight attendant shows this isn’t something about “beliefs about cross-gender contact”, its about seeing women as inferior.
Same tale as with fascism: total tolerance leads to the extinction of tolerance, which means we must be intolerant of people like this disgusting chud.
There must be a mechanism to remove such people from societies where they only inflict damage. Sadly simple removing his citizenship is not legal, but i’d approve of any measured approach to make him realize that living where people regardless of gender have the same rights might come at a cost that is too high to pay.
I tried to make a respond too, but Yours is probably better.
Excellent point. 👍
If he has dual citizenship it is. But IMO it sucks that it has to depend on that.
Or he could just be an entitled asshole. There’s no point in making judgements without enough information, and it’s not like being entitled justifies punching a flight attendant in the face.
People actively physically harming others aren’t “assholes”, they are criminals. The combination with his obvious believe in the inferiority of women makes it a fucking hate crime.
Okay? That has nothing to do with anything I said.
Well that’s certainly your assumption, but you haven’t actually backed it up with anything.
Ok, i’m just gonna tag you as a troll and disengage. Have fun baiting other people who don’t value their time.
Refusing to be seated next to a woman isn’t sexist? Ahah you old prankster!
Yes that’s the whole point I’m making here. Why would it be sexist?
OK. Blocked.
Noted.
This is so far out I’m simply at a loss for words on how to respond!? But I will make an effort to try anyway.
The norm in a modern democracy is to treat each other as equals, and respect the personal sphere of individuals.
Of course there are limits on what people can do towards each other, like assault is not allowed, but that rule is equal for all, and is not a “sexist” rule. It does protect women against sexist assault, but it does the same for men, although the problem for women are several magnitudes bigger.
Are you really comparing sitting next to a woman would be akin to sexual assault, in a society where men and women are treated as equals?
I have to downvote you, because I don’t see a way you could have made the above comment in good faith. I reeks of apologism towards religious extremism and sexual discrimination.
You’re arguing past my point and not really addressing anything I actually said?
No? I’m comparing it to something like hugs, which are acceptable cross-gender greetings in some places but limited to the same gender in others. That doesn’t make places where the latter holds anti-democratic. I thought I was clear enough on that, but I’m not justifying what the man in the OP did; I’m just saying jumping from that to “disrespect for democratic values” is reading more into the story than there is to it. Plain entitlement is sufficient to explain everything we see here, and there’d have been no problem had the man been more respectful about what he was trying to do (for example by looking for someone to switch seats with). This is ultimately a problem of how he went about it, not of what he was trying to do.
You’re arguing past my point and not really addressing anything I actually said?
No? I’m comparing it to something like hugs, which are acceptable cross-gender greetings in some places but limited to the same gender in others. That doesn’t make places where the latter holds anti-democratic. I thought I was clear enough on that, but I’m not justifying what the man in the OP did; I’m just saying jumping from that to “disrespect for democratic values” is reading more into the story than there is to it. Plain entitlement is sufficient to explain everything we see here, and there’d have been no problem had the man been more respectful about what he was trying to do (for example by looking for someone to switch seats with).
No it’s not, not among strangers in a random situation like sitting besides each other in a plane.
But sure if both parties are OK with it, why should society be involved with a voluntary legal interaction between 2 people that consent?
Not consenting to sit beside a woman however is CLEARLY discriminatory. As is attacking the flight attendant for doing her job! It is not normal or polite behavior. It is prejudiced religious bigotry.
And anyone behaving like that can fuck right off, and live in a paradise of religious bigotry in some religiously fanatic country.
You are trying to compare crazy with normal. Religious law is based on superstition and delusions. Democracy is based on the pursuit of building a better and fairer society for all.
Democracy is the opposite of being based on religion. If you want to live under laws based on religion, you do not belong or deserve to live in a democracy.
Other behavior aside, how?
Following Merriam Webster:
Is this even treating someone else like anything other than yourself in the first place?*
Sitting next to someone wouldn’t provide anything. In fact, it’s quite negative.
* Well, perhaps in this case that means unfairly treating people of your own gender by increasing possibility of someone sitting next to them in certain scenarios, which would fullfil the definition of discrimination.
In this case, if there were no other seats available, simply not taking the flight would have caused no harm. Actually, it would have made one passenger who’d keep more space happy. While it could be argued the passenger got better experience unfairly, based on her gender, I doubt anyone would give that a serious thought.
(My comment concerns someone voluntarily separating themselves)