It was not a threat, but a hypothetical example to gauge the reaction of that reactionary baiter.
The problem with claiming AI generated art as CSAM is that there is no possible way to create an objective definition of what “level” of realism is real and what is not. A drawing or imaginary creation is best left not defined as real in any capacity whatsoever. If it is drawn or digitally created, it is not real, period. Those people thinking of good uses of AI were too optimistic and failed to account for the extremely bad use cases that will spiral out of control as far as human society goes.
Even though China is incredibly advanced and proactive on trying to control this AI deepfake issue, I do not trust any entity in any capacity on such a problem impossible to solve on a country or international scale.
I just had a dejavu moment typing this comment, and I have no idea why.
So if I draw a stick figure with 2 circles, call it 8 years old, is it CSAM? Will I be arrested for it? Do you see how that dumb logic does not work too well?
Hot take: yes. All art exists in a social context, and if the social context of your art is “this is a child and they are sexualized” then your art should be considered CSAM. Doesn’t matter if it’s in an anime style, a photorealistic style, or if it’s a movie where the children are fully clothed for the duration but are sexualized by the director as in Cuties - CSAM, CSAM, CSAM.
The problem with your argument is there cannot be developed a scale or spectrum to judge where the fake stops and real starts for drawings or AI generated media. And since they were not recorded with a camera in real world, they cannot be real, no matter what your emotional response to such a deplorable defamation act may be. It is libel of an extreme order.
Cuties was shot with a camera in real world. Do you see the difference between AI generated media and what Cuties was?
there cannot be developed a scale or spectrum to judge where the fake stops and real starts
Ah, but my definition didn’t at all rely on whether or not the images were “real” or “fake”, did it? An image is not merely an arrangement of pixels in a jpeg, you understand - an image has a social context that tells us what it is and why it was created. It doesn’t matter if there were real actors or not, if it’s an image of a child and it’s being sexualized, it should be considered CSAM.
And yes I understand that that will always be a subjective judgement with a grey area, but not every law needs to have a perfectly defined line where the legal becomes the illegal. A justice system should not be a computer program that simply runs the numbers and delivers an output.
An image is not merely an arrangement of pixels in a jpeg,
I am not one of those “it’s just pixels on a screen” people. But if it was not recorded in real world with a camera, it cannot be real.
Who will be the judge? If there is some automated AI created, who will be the one creating it? Will it be perfect? No. We will end up in the situation that Google caused to users, like doctors, married parents and legitimate people being labelled as pedophiles or CSAM users. It has already happened to me in this thread, and you also said it. The only accurate way to judge it will be a very large team of forensic experts on image/video media, which is not feasible for the amount of data social media generates.
not every law needs to have a perfectly defined line
And this is where the abuse by elites, politicians and establishment starts. Activists and dissidents can be easily jailed by CSAM being planted, which would in this case be as simple as AI pictures being temporary drive by downloads onto target’s devices.
The same people that should judge every criminal proceeding. Of course it’s not going to be perfect, but this is a case of not letting perfect be the enemy of good. Allowing generated or drawn images of sexualized children to exist has external costs to society in the form of normalizing the concept.
The argument that making generated or drawn CSAM illegal is bad because the feds might plant such images on an activist is incoherent. If you’re worried about that, why not worry that they’ll plant actual CSAM on your computer?
Just passing through, no strong opinions on the matter nor is it something I wish to do deep dive research on.
Just wanted to point out that your original comment was indeed just a threat that did nothing to address OPs argument.
It was not a threat, but a hypothetical example to gauge the reaction of that reactionary baiter.
The problem with claiming AI generated art as CSAM is that there is no possible way to create an objective definition of what “level” of realism is real and what is not. A drawing or imaginary creation is best left not defined as real in any capacity whatsoever. If it is drawn or digitally created, it is not real, period. Those people thinking of good uses of AI were too optimistic and failed to account for the extremely bad use cases that will spiral out of control as far as human society goes.
Even though China is incredibly advanced and proactive on trying to control this AI deepfake issue, I do not trust any entity in any capacity on such a problem impossible to solve on a country or international scale.
I just had a dejavu moment typing this comment, and I have no idea why.
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So if I draw a stick figure with 2 circles, call it 8 years old, is it CSAM? Will I be arrested for it? Do you see how that dumb logic does not work too well?
Removed by mod
Hot take: yes. All art exists in a social context, and if the social context of your art is “this is a child and they are sexualized” then your art should be considered CSAM. Doesn’t matter if it’s in an anime style, a photorealistic style, or if it’s a movie where the children are fully clothed for the duration but are sexualized by the director as in Cuties - CSAM, CSAM, CSAM.
Glad that it will always remain a hot take.
The problem with your argument is there cannot be developed a scale or spectrum to judge where the fake stops and real starts for drawings or AI generated media. And since they were not recorded with a camera in real world, they cannot be real, no matter what your emotional response to such a deplorable defamation act may be. It is libel of an extreme order.
Cuties was shot with a camera in real world. Do you see the difference between AI generated media and what Cuties was?
Ah, but my definition didn’t at all rely on whether or not the images were “real” or “fake”, did it? An image is not merely an arrangement of pixels in a jpeg, you understand - an image has a social context that tells us what it is and why it was created. It doesn’t matter if there were real actors or not, if it’s an image of a child and it’s being sexualized, it should be considered CSAM.
And yes I understand that that will always be a subjective judgement with a grey area, but not every law needs to have a perfectly defined line where the legal becomes the illegal. A justice system should not be a computer program that simply runs the numbers and delivers an output.
I am not one of those “it’s just pixels on a screen” people. But if it was not recorded in real world with a camera, it cannot be real.
Who will be the judge? If there is some automated AI created, who will be the one creating it? Will it be perfect? No. We will end up in the situation that Google caused to users, like doctors, married parents and legitimate people being labelled as pedophiles or CSAM users. It has already happened to me in this thread, and you also said it. The only accurate way to judge it will be a very large team of forensic experts on image/video media, which is not feasible for the amount of data social media generates.
And this is where the abuse by elites, politicians and establishment starts. Activists and dissidents can be easily jailed by CSAM being planted, which would in this case be as simple as AI pictures being temporary drive by downloads onto target’s devices.
The same people that should judge every criminal proceeding. Of course it’s not going to be perfect, but this is a case of not letting perfect be the enemy of good. Allowing generated or drawn images of sexualized children to exist has external costs to society in the form of normalizing the concept.
The argument that making generated or drawn CSAM illegal is bad because the feds might plant such images on an activist is incoherent. If you’re worried about that, why not worry that they’ll plant actual CSAM on your computer?