“I genocided your brothers and bombed your schools and seiged you but please don’t hit my military targets cause I put them in densely populated areas”
Your humanitarian principle requires everyone in the world to basically allow themselves to be attacked by America, it’s European lapdogs and the zionist occupation.
From a legal and military standpoint your logic is simply absurd.
Reading comprehension curse strikes again
I have never once advocated for the deliberate targeting of civilians and have specified again and again that warfighting should be between militaries.
The implication here is: “You people are detached, soft, and incapable of understanding real war.”
No the implication is that westerners love killing civilians so much that they forget that wars are fought between militaries. I’ll be more clear about this next time.
That’s not an argument. That’s a moral superiority pose.
You want an argument? It’s trivial to give one. All western countries have been involved in warmongering in west asia since before I was born. There is full justification for any group in west asia to launch attacks on western military assets.
Even under international law (which western militaries refuse to follow), retaliating against military attacks is fully allowed. America and its zionist occupation of Palestine attacked Iran (military targets and civilians), and even inside its borders and capital city*. The Iranian state has every right to bomb any American military target, even if it were inside US border.
*this isn’t the first time either. The Americans did this last year, and even in trump’s 1rst term
minimizing the reality that modern warfare absolutely does kill civilians
Sure, there are civilians casualties from war. So should America be allowed to bomb and genocide whoever they want with no one fighting back?
Civilian harm is a central moral and legal issue in contemporary conflict. That’s not Western fragility. That’s international humanitarian law.
Lmao western militaries do not give a single fuck about civilians or collateral damage or international law. You really want to present the butchers of gaza as some sort of hippies in 2026?
Are westerners only able to conceptualise the killing of civilians? Are they so far removed from having normal countries that they forget that wars are fought between armies?
Yeah it’s a good thing when fascist states get bombed. You’d be the kind to both sides WW2 if it was socially acceptable to go to bat for the nazis
It is not random bombing. It is targeted because fuck the German state in particular. They should have a taste of their own medicine and have their military assets/factories bombed.
My original point wasn’t that anti-imperialism exists outside class analysis, but that in neo-colonial conditions, the form class struggle takes must be strategically sequenced.
Absolutely. Even outside of neo-colonial conditions I would argue this. Revolution is not a one and done deal, nor can any class afford to fight a war on all fronts against everyone at once.
This is a tactical necessity to isolate the primary enemy. To elevate the domestic “rich” as the immediate target while imperialist powers actively undermine sovereignty is to misidentify the principal contradiction and risk strengthening the external oppressor.
Not only that, but “rich” is a poor term that cannot be properly defined. The proletariat must be clear that the class boundaries lie in the ownership of industrial and mercantile/financial capital, not in some tax bracket.
However, there is a situation in which it makes sense for the loser classes to depose the upper classes even under colonial conditions. That’s if the national ruling class is too incompetent or collaborationist. I believe the overthrowing of the Qing dynasty can be such an example. Of course, this does not apply to modern day Iran.
The struggle against imperialism and neocolonism is class struggle.
On one side is the international bourgeoise and national bourgeoises (of many countries), on the other side is the national bourgeoise (of some countries), the proletariat, peasantry and indigenous populations.
(The class conflict is most complicated than that but I’m just making a point)
True. But class comes is not a binary.
The passengers are soldiers who signed up to go kill people. They aren’t innocent.
The DNC were mass murdering and war mongering and upgrading the surveillance state as hard as the republicans are. The only thing they’ve been somewhat different on is that the republicans are more willing to attack trans people. That’s just about it. On every other front the capitalists have been capitaling. Even on tariffs, Biden increased tariffs and continued trump’s trade wars.
The bourgeois world-empire marches on regardless of who is king, for their king is a mere reflection in the mirror.
Very clickbaity headline. Just changing egg-like to egg-shaped would be good
Maybe even a
Dictatorship of the bourgeoise
ICE concentration camps but with pride flags attached 😍
Thank you comrade for copying over my comments
Engels and lenin had good writings for beginners. You might want to read principles of communism, or state and revolution to get some basic context and theory. The first one is structured like an FAQ and is short. The latter you can find english translations that are quite accessible.
Once you understand the basic principles of marxism, you will understand just how different the whole philosophy really is. If you get deep into the theory, you might see that Marxism is basically a whole separate branch of philosophy that breaks away from the enlightened tradition of western philosophy. In some small sense, I see Marxism as a refuation of liberalism.
This is a memey Internet forum not a ML party formation. Genuinely what do you expect?
Also the stuff about the queer posting is just wierd. How many “normies” are wandering onto lemmy queer spaces in the first place? And if seeing some wierd memes is enough to “push” someone into conservatism then they were already a conservative.
This is a very idealistic view of history. Ideology did not create material conditions, material conditions created ideology (and ideology was used as a tool to reinforce material conditions)
The slavery, genocide, capitalism and colonialism came first. Then liberalism was created to justify it. And I do want to emphasise that all of those 4 things were justified using liberal logic, that was the point of liberal logic.
The first liberals deemed the “unenligtened” to be subhuman, incapable or governing themselves, worthy of being treated like livestock and as fundamental threats to the ruling order. This was their justification for doing everything they did, you can read their writings on native Americans and Africans and see exactly what classical liberalism was all about.
Later waves of liberals ended up using liberal logic to abolish slavery. Great. But the reason they did this was because the capitalist mode of production had superceded the slave mode of production. The surplus of proletariats hated competing with slaves and having their wages be reduced. Meanwhile the northern bourgeoise often had friction with the southern planters since the planters were rentiers extracting wealth from the whole economy like parasites.
Modern liberals now proclaim themselves to be great champions of “liberty” (the liberty for the bourgeoise to buy property), but they by in large continue to support capitalism and western imperialism*. And frankly, why wouldn’t they? That was what the ideology was created for.
*you can see this in their insistence upon using “white man’s burden” arguments whenever foreign intervention comes up
I’m in the camp that their ideas of classical liberalism were fine. I feel shame that our country is built on genocide, slavery and exploitation
Not an American here, but do you not see the contradiction here? From an outside perspective this reads the same as a German saying
I’m in camp that hitler’s ideas were fine. But I feel shame that the riech was founded on genocide slavery and exploitation.
Like I’m genuinely confused here.
I don’t even know what point you’re trying to make anymore. Let’s cut this thread honestly it’s long enough.