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well… that depends on what you didn’t like about it then. I can the tell you what changed and you can decide for yourself?

I’d say that it’s different now, but I still kinda don’t like it.

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apparently? I stopped watching a while ago

Just trying to figure out how much they can get away with

then immediately walk them back when they’re called out for it

this is how bullies operate. bold and loud but, ultimately, cowards with no conviction.

I thought someone might. I just happened to be watching it last night, so I remembered the power rating of the laser.

Great Scott!

for those wondering, the (fictional) laser in the 1985 film Real Genius that could vaporize a human target from space was 9.4 megawatts.

they had to write it, cut out time for it, and work it into the existing plot. basically rewriting

the incident happened in 2017. the episode came out years later. there was no “existing plot” to rewrite, lmao. and the blood and gore and horror was far beyond the rest of what happened that episode or even season.

you’re twisting yourself in knots to explain away something very obvious.

it didn’t seem too ridiculous considering what he said, and they didn’t have to rewrite anything. they just had to write it. the scene was pretty over-the-top in its brutality. it didn’t take much “interpretation” to see the hostility there.

I don’t think he got blacklisted, I think Brooks just didn’t have any further interest in Trek and moved on. It’s discussed a bit in the DS9 documentary What We Left Behind. He’s kinda… eccentric. If you’ve ever seen any interviews with him (which he tends to avoid), he’s sorta off in his own world. IIRC, he’s a jazz professor at a University someplace in California and happy doing that.

he’s not the only Trek (or even the only VOY) actor to run afoul of fans because said Bad Things™ on Twitter.

In 2017, Manu Intiraymi, who played Icheb on VOY, tweeted some nasty comments in defense of Kevin Spacey who was accused of sexually assaulting DIS actor Anthony Rapp when he was 14. Not only did Trek fans collectively have an aneurysm (and rightly so), Paramount cut ties with him over the incident. Not long after, his character, Icheb, was killed especially brutally in an episode of PIC— while also portrayed by a different actor. Many interpreted that as those working on Trek telling Intiraymi exactly how they felt about his comments— while also closing the door on his ever returning.

nice work!

I have to admit, I wish they’d just leave the past the past. although… when we saw what their ideas was for what’s going on post-VOY/TNG, that was terrible, too! PIC only ended well because they brought Terry Matalas in to save S3 which, thank goodness, was actually pretty great, but, still. It’s going to take a lot of heavy lifting to clean up the mess they made of the Federation in the first two seasons.

Still, though, I agree that it’s time to leave the past in the past and move on from Kirk, Spock, and all the rest. someone in another post mentioned possibly exploring the early-24th century? there’s a lot of time between TUC and TNG that’s unexplored. Seems like there could be something there?

My point was that Star Wars has been tied to the same characters for personal and business reasons, not inherently creative ones defined by the setting. The difference IMO is mostly down to who the creators and executives involved in the process of each IP have been, not the actual merits of the respective IP’s worlds.

oh, well, I’m sure that’s true. and I wasn’t arguing that (at least the current) creators/creatives were sticking to it for lack of imagination, just that one of the problems is that they are for whatever reason and that stepping away from it to focus on another period would greatly benefit everyone. I think we agree on this, it’s just that I was, perhaps, unclear in my criticism or what or even who, precisely, I was criticizing.

I also realize that the decision is not that of the creatives alone, but can be stifled by the stubbornness of the studios. but I don’t really think the likes of Filoni and Favraeu et al are so limited any more, having earned a lot of creative freedoms with their repeated successes. sure, there may be issues related to getting the rights to some of the stories, but I believe there’s genuine interest in developing the previous eras. I thin it was at the SW Con in March where Filoni laid out his new planned timeline, and there was Old Republic and High Republic eras noted on it that he planned to start writing stories for. So, I’m hopeful.

No offense met, because you raise a lot of good points on why Star Trek works as a setting, but I fundamentally disagree with the Star Wars take here. Historically, Star Wars has centered around the Skywalker saga for Personal (George Lucas) and Business (Disney) reasons, not creative ones.

I don’t see the point of disagreement here, although this could bear more exploring as to what, exactly, you mean.

Star Wars offers an excellent setting with a framework to discuss ethics and morality baked directly into the universe. Stories like Knights of the Old Republic have shown that you can get away from the main Saga and still tell an engaging story rooted in the universe that Saga created. Tons of old Legends content didn’t tie directly into the original films and were excellent.

yeah, sure. they just haven’t yet (not in official-can media like the shows/films), and I think that’s a huge shame. it’s certainly where they should go next and a great way to breathe new life into the franchise.

Andor has also shown that it’s also just that bad writing is what leads to IP burnout.

kinda, but I think what Andor mostly did was show that a SW could survive both a massive tonal shift and making a show marketed solely towards adults that was much more violent and contained mature themes that was beyond what children could deal with. Also, it finally addresses complex issues such as the internal machinations of the ESB, and comes off as more sci-fi than sci-fantasy. It’s not a “fun” show. It’s dark and mean. And you already know everyone’s going to die horribly. And it’s awesome because it’s made with no restraints.

Trek tried this with DIS and PIC, and it blew up in their faces— mostly because Trek isn’t that kind of universe.

Ya know, they’ve started in with the novels already. Not only with, it think Tales of the Jed, but also going into the new series Acolyte, they’re delving into adapting some of the later ones. I do believe they’re going to start moving that way.

I agree that there’s so much to tell in the SW mythos. and while I agree that the Skywalker story is done, I think that you’re much more likely to find someone more willing to plum the depths of The Old Republic and the tens of thousands of years of history leading up to the fall of the Republic. The Era of the High Republic, for example, already has plenty of novels to explore and adapt.

But, back to Trek, I think it’s time to pivot away from throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. They should have a good enough idea now of what audiences want, and it isn’t DIS, it’s SNW and content similar to that in tone and format. Episodic with short story arcs, character driven and mission-focused without being too superficial and action-driven. Audiences want to see nuance and emotion, but don’t want to be ruled by it and still want to see the science being worked out with teamwork, not used as dialog-filler without actually being applied in a slapdash manner without any realistic connection to what’s happening on screen. and enough with the spinning camera and constant crazy camera angles giving everyone vertigo.

The challenge of storytelling in the Star Trek universe and the Star Wars universe are very different challenges. In Star Wars, the main story has already been told. From Episode I to Episode IX, you have the Skywalker Saga, and all other stories told on the side must be, in some way, in service of either that or to the broader events in the galaxy that bring it about. Every story in the SWEU service that main storyline, and even when they stray off to try to have their own story, they always come back to it again and again, eventually becoming part of it themselves.

Now, this isn’t a bad thing. One thing that has made this work for so long is how good the writers - especially Dave Filoni - seems to be at fleshing out the universe in which the SWEU exists. The man has a gift for worldbuilding. Not only does it take place in a civilization seemingly tens (or possibly hundreds) of thousands of years more advanced than ours, the whole civilization occupies most of the galaxy and regularly travels around it rather quickly, as opposed to how, in Star Trek, the galaxy is still a very big place, and traveling long distances like they often do in Star Wars could take years, if not decades. And it’s got a lot more characters than we see in Star Trek because there’s a lot more shows that have gone a lot more places and done a lot more things. An entire galactic rebellion didn’t just happen when some farm kid had his aunt and uncle murdered and picked up an old laser sword that some hermit gave him. and the entire Galactic Empire didn’t just go away when they lost power. There’s a lot to explore there, story-wise. And they have. That’s the problem.

It’s just too much all at once, and people get exhausted just trying to keep up. In Disney’s never-ending thirst for profits, they just kept pumping out content, and people kept gobbling it up. It’s not that it wasn’t pretty great stuff, it’s that they released so much and have told so many stories and have covered so much ground that people are kind of getting tired of it. It’s not necessarily that people are bored or that the content isn’t good, it’s that Star Wars, itself, is starting to wear thin. And there’s still plenty more story to tell, but people need a break. It’s been non-stop Star Wars content since 2001, and for the last few years, it’s been a deluge of it. It’s just too much for a lot of people, and it ruins how special Star Was is if it’s so common that’s impossible to avoid.

Star Trek can like that, too, though. If too many shows are coming out at once people will lose interest because it becomes less interesting and special, even if the quality is still high. Sometimes the quality suffers as a result, too. I think both franchises could benefit from turning down the firehose of content releases to more of a steady stream.

well… he did die 6 years before it was made…

his ex-wife, Majel “Lwaxanna” Rodenbery-Barrett starred in it and was also an Executive Producer, which might have had something to do with his being credited as creator.