Downvotes can be a useful tool to shape a community, but one of the main issues brought up in the post I made is when several people start downvoting communities they don’t even participate in. Which I want to emphasize is NOT the correct way for downvotes to be used.
First id like to start off with an apology to those who are upset about them being enabled. It may seem very clear to you that downvotes weren’t wanted, but as an admin I get complaints for basically every decision made on this site, so what the “right” choice is, is sometimes hard to determine.
I’ve been getting complaints about downvotes being disabled for awhile now, so it wasn’t clear to me. Even now, the opinion is still very split. Which is why I enabled them quietly to see if it would cause any issues. It did, so I made the initial post to see if people think the issues created by downvotes outweigh the benefits, and what peoples’ other opinions about them are.
This is my opinion based on what I’ve read and the results of the poll:
I think at a later time when lemmynsfw is larger, downvotes may be viable, especially if lemmy implements a custom home feed so that not everyone sees the same posts. This would help mitigate the issue of people not in communities downvoting posts. But as it stands I think the best option is disabling them again. Frequent posters, which are kind of needed for this site to survive, don’t seem to like them, and the poll is split almost 50/50. I have to try to balance enjoyability of posting and enjoyability of consuming content on the site, and it just seems like downvotes really hurts posters and only marginally helps consumers.
So with all that said, downvotes have been disabled again. Sorry for all the confusion and back and forth.
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I was personally on the fence anyway, but I really appreciate your work and explanation for decisions. You don’t have to do that but it means a lot!
You are doing (well not gods work) but still great work!
I Agree, it is basically impossible to make everyone happy.Personally I would like to have a possibility to display my discontent with something, in a more clear, immediate and concize way than a comment. Yet it is clear that Lemmy does not have the tools necessary to keep it being fun while people aren’t playing along.
I think removing down votes was the correct decision. We need to let all community grow and curate your own feed. Sometimes I like to see what else is out there even if it isn’t what I normally like.
Just to say something in opposition to criticism expressed in other comments… No matter what you choose there will be upset people in comments, and as an admin you can make decisions you see fit here as you are the one doing most of the work. There will always be people upset with the decision, but so far I believe you are doing great job!
And … the local feed is back to unusable while the overall quality in subscribed subs is down.
Unfortunately very predictable result.
does people sharing their dicks for others and not you irritate you so much🤔
Not that I have a solution but engoraging people to use “blocks” and “filters” is the way to go I think.
I’d like to create a homepage but Lemmy moves too slowly for that, so I do find myself on “all” a lot. So blocking users/communities/instances and filtering keywords are how I craft a positive experience here.
When EH was around I’d waste endless time trolling/downvoting them, which I now realise was time wasted. It didn’t help me; made Lemmy more toxic; and gave bad actors the legitimacy and attention they want.
I think my comment in the poll was fairly comprehensive, so I’ll leave it at that. Except to add good job LemmyNSFW admins you constantly handle controversy well. From instance bans, instance drama or this current downvote issue, no notes.
This is the right decision. I did not want to add an opinion and leave the majority decide, but the issue is downvotes are not used correctly.
Are you saying entire communities can be downvoted? I didn’t even realize that. But it seems entirely unnecessary because people can block communities they don’t like.
Not entirely communities, but people will see a post from a community on their feed that they don’t like and downvote it. They 100% should block the community if they don’t like it, but what we’re seeing us they would just downvote the post.
Maybe we need a Meh button that means, “I’m not interested in this type of material.” Or as a confirmation on a downvote.
We need an added algorithm based home feed that has a “not interested” option, hopefully one day
Why don’t you disable upvotes too, then? Or at least hide the vote count–it is meaningless when it’s one sided.
many sites have this problem seem to have this problem, like Youtube. They go around disabling negative feedback and then have trouble with garbage. And it also seems to me that a dislike being an option makes the like much more meaningful.
I disagree. One-sided upvotes clearly has meaning - it means more people like a thing or think it has merit. Downvotes also have meaning. Disabling downvotes just says if you don’t like something we don’t care, just move on. I don’t mind that at all.
That’s not a world I want to live in. Moving on. Good bye.
You’re not a train. You don’t need to announce your departure.
Great news TBH. I think Lemmy is better off without users who think douchevoting is that important. Enjoy reddit!
Thanks for involving the community in the decision.
It’s nice to see active admins on our instance.
I want to thank you lemmyposter212 for this fair minded decision. I know that we’ll probably revisit this subject in a number of months and then maybe the decision will be different and I shall probably bow out gracefully at that point rather than mount a protest.
I also want to thank the other posters and commenters who showed up to support each other, particularly @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] and @[email protected]
But for right now I have another problem which is how to go about restoring the posts I blanked out. What I intend to do is to go through and try to match the titles to their original picture and then I shall make a weekly digest post of the ones that have been restored so that the people who haven’t seen them before can enjoy them.
Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.
I’m glad you’re sticking around. You post good stuff.
Thanks for those kind words, you’ve been commenting on my posts for a while now and it’s those small acts of appreciation for what I do that make the difference.
I think we’re missing stuff like that.
I’m an artisanal purveyor of smut.
Have you considered modding at some of the communities you post to? Be glad to add you to some of my comms if you are interested
You saw how I react to things during this whole debate, I’m not the type of person you want dealing with your users. About twenty years ago I used to mod on an early file-sharing network and even that tiny bit of power went to my head and I started to go a little bit mad with it. It taught me that I’m not really a fit person to be in charge of anything but me 😁
I appreciate the offer but I can promise you that you’d regret it. I want to stick to what I came here to do, which is share the pictures I’ve saved with other people.
Totally understand 👍
I’ve been blocking communities for around 300+ so far. The communities that I’m not interested. I’ve been doing this since day 1 and still keep checking new communities every day. For either subscribe or block.
I just want for people here having fun without getting downvotes so much because they’re not interested in such content per se.
There is logic in Madness.
After I participated in the other thread, I thought of a couple more scenarios where downvoting is useful:
- “this post is low effort”
Downvoting is a useful feedback tool to say hey OP, I have given your post an amount of my time that your low effort post did not earn. Try harder next time.
- “we don’t need yet another community for this topic”
If a person creates a new community for a topic that already has one (or more), to get around the community blocks that users have already put up, that’s functionally very similar to ban evasion. I’m tired of blocking repeat communities. If I see a person make a new community for a topic that is practically identical to one that exists, a downvote is warranted.
I’m not telling you my opinion should overrule the other arguments here, but it’s better to have all sides present so it’s not just an echo chamber.
thanks for your input
Really disappointing decision. I’m tired of blocking so many niche (to say the least) communities polluting the local feed.
You’re quite literally proving their point. You’re not meant to downvote things you don’t like to see. Your argument is also completely flawed. A block is a one time thing per community. So how are you tired of this? Without a block you’d be downvoting every single post that comes up from said community, which is constant work, which you somehow would not be tired of? Unless of course it is your goal to bully away the people from said community so they don’t post anymore at all, which again, just proves the point of downvotes being a tool for harassment. Maybe take some time to self reflect on your own behavior.
If people stuck to existing communities, that would be one thing. I block a community for topic x, then a user makes a new community for topic x, so my block doesn’t hide it. Now I have to block the new community.
This happens every day. Every day I ask myself didn’t I already block that community? The answer is no. It’s a new community about a thing I’ve already blocked a dozen times. A person who creates a new community only marginally different than an existing one deserves downvotes for doing so. Otherwise you’re just enabling spam trolls from overtaking everyone’s feeds.
You can say the same thing about instances. Maybe there’s a reason someone made a community that follows the same topic? For example, a lot of new communities may be alternatives to those hosted on the Tankie instances, like .ml.
Well yes and no. Your are meant to downvote things you don’t like to see, that’s the whole point of voting.
You don’t make sense. You’ve been told by me and even one of the admins that that’s not what you’re supposed to do. If you don’t like the content of a certain community, like those posting AI content, then you block said communities. Downvoting them would have 0 effect on you and your feed, other than being a waste of your time. Downvoting does not make the posts go away, it does not hide them, it just is a much bigger effort than just blocking the community, for literally no actual effect.
downvotes aren’t meant to be used as “I don’t like this entire community’s posts” if you don’t like a community, then block it, rather than downvoting a post that is in an appropriate community that the people subscribed to that community will like
I’m not downvoting a community but posts. AI community posts are not something I want to see and polute my feed. I block and/or downvote. Lately blocking has been very tiring.
Have you considered to just use the subscribed timeline rather than local or all?
Because to be honest with you, that would be:
- Far simpler
- Far more effective
- Far less of a dick move towards others in this online community.
2 additional AI communities blocked since yesterday. What will happen when they will flood the instance?
You could join the communities you’re interested in, and then browse those. Then you’ll just get the stuff you like, and you won’t need to block.
Thankfully it’s easier to block a user than it is to create an account.
True
Thank you for leaving them disabled. I think that it’s ultimately the correct choice to foster growth on this platform for now
