I was wondering if there were systems in place for users to report mods who are just ignoring the code of conduct and just abusing their power of moderator as a whole?
I’ve seen that we could get in touch via Mastodon, but I don’t have an account for that unfortunately and I was curious to know if there were other ways
Looking at the modlog, it’s a temp ban from memes. I wouldn’t sweat it.
The point isn’t that they received some wild type of “punishment” they can’t come back from. The point is that having what you’re allowed to say policed in this fashion is offensive to the vast majority of people, whatever mechanism “gentle” or not is being used to enforce the policing.
Moderation started out as a way to remove racism, spam and similar blatant abuse. Somehow, it’s grown to the point that people feel they have to hover over the shoulders of the commenters dictating what are the allowed and disallowed types of statements. Most people feel that if they think China has an oppressive government, they should be allowed to say it. And that if they think the US has an oppressive government, they should be allowed to say it. Lemmy.ml is a silly place because one of those statements is “allowed” and the other is not, which is absurd behavior that belongs better on a Fox News comment section or a US State Department web site than it does on the flagship instance of a supposedly FOSS-and-freedom friendly software project.
Both of those statements are allowed in .ml, you just can’t repeat us state department propaganda without extreme amounts of proof to back it up. There is a difference between: “I think China is authoritarian” and “oog boog look remember that genocide that the UN investigated and found wasn’t a genocide where all the ‘victims’ that were touted are now millionaires in other countries after selling a story the UN specifically found didn’t happen… It happened!!!1!1!!1”
I have gotten banned from .ml twice for merely stating that Russia shot down a civilian airliner in Ukraine.
What century are you from? The last time Russia had anti air assets in Ukraine it was still called the Ukraine and it was half it’s current size.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
And here we reach the crux of the matter.
If I think there’s been a genocide in Xinjiang, I should be able to say so. Someone else might think that’s objectively not true, and we can talk about it. That’s actually a really healthy thing, it is an exchange of ideas. Almost no one has a monopoly on understanding the world completely, and so it’s necessary to be able to talk it back and forth. Deciding that we’re going to delete one side of that conversation is good for no one.
I think the model that’s crept into the modern internet where discordant ideas are “enemy” ideas that everyone needs to be protected against, and there’s no point in talking with anyone you disagree with because all the two of you will do is attack each other, is poison.
I’m happy to hear what you have to say, maybe I am wrong about this instance. When did the UN say there wasn’t a genocide and all the victims are millionaires? If you link me to the report, I would like to read it.
Edit: Instead of pointing me to information so I can read for myself and upend my whole worldview, he chose to go back through my history downvoting a bunch of stuff including when I was talking about how to set up RSS feeds. Lol.
Uncritically spreading xenophobic propaganda will of course get you a tut-tut of some kind. As it should.
Can you link me to the UN report where they found there was no genocide, and the so-called victims were millionaires?
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/2022-08-31/22-08-31-final-assesment.pdf
They don’t even mention the word genocide because that is an accusation exclusive to US propaganda think tanks and those who cite them, i.e. their funders (the US State Department and other imperialist countries’ similar state organs) and friendly media. It is baseless bullshit that can only be entertained by the ignorant.
If you keep searching, you will find another “UN” “report” that attacks China, but this is not the OHCR, it is the usual propaganda thing where countries invite propagandists to a meeting and have them read out accusations. It is not any kind of investigation.
How does this report find there was no genocide, if they didn’t mention the word genocide?
I also searched for “million” to try to find the story about all the victims being millionaires now, and I didn’t find that either. Can you or the other person who talked about that tell me more about where I can find it?
I did skim some of the report.
Leaving aside the question of whether to draw the conclusion that there is a genocide, do you think that information like the stuff I just quoted from the report you just sent me is accurate?
Because it is an investigation into alleged human rights abuses in Xinjiang for the exact period in question in response to the people making these allegations.
The escalation of claims went: human rights abuses -> cultural genocide -> genocide. Both escalations were unjustified and they literally had nothing for the escalation to genocide. It was a claim by a shady organization funded by a CIA cutout.
I haven’t followed the incomes of the grifters pushing this narrative in the West but if you research World Uyghur Congress you will probably find information about this. I do know that they received a lot of funding and have very little to show for it. That money went somewhere.
I would need to refresh my memory and look into specific cases because some people have recanted accounts like this or otherwise given very inconsistent stories. I don’t doubt that there were abuses, though. The devil is really in the details. Often it is people from these NED-funded propaganda orgs that are used as sources for these stories and they have a vested interest in how they tell them in order to support their ideological cause and continue receiving funding. For example one of the accounts often touted, and I don’t know whether it is one of those specific examples you mention, is by a business owner whose story constantly changed who fled the country and whose family more or less says is lying. Without her business assets, she received income from these NED funded orgs. It’s a fairly standard playbook at this point.
Incidentally, one of the orgs funded in this way, ETIM, was on the US and others’ terrorism lists until it became convenient to use them to poke China. ETIM are reactionary separatists trying to import Arab salafist positions and wrongly conflate them with Uyghur (Turkic) customs. They are also behind some of the knife attacks and they are related to the al Qaeda-adjascent groups in Syria vowing to bring separatist violence to China right now.
https://feddit.nl/post/16246531
Yes that is specifically what I’m talking about, there wasn’t criticism of China, there was “oog think China bad because ( insert thing the UN found no evidence of that literally only the US ever said there was evidence of and they didn’t present that evidence ).”
And how is this related to mechanical keyboards, Linux and open source communities?
Banning someone from an instance also bans them from communities they participate in. Or at least, it used to.
That’s probably the core of the issue. People probably don’t mind being banned from [email protected] or [email protected] for such statements, it’s not like it’s a surprise based on the political stance of the instance.
Being banned from Linux and keyboard communities seems unrelated. Which is why people are recreating those communities elsewhere.
If instances are like separate Reddits then it is just like getting a siteban.
Also something being “politics” does not mean it should entitle you to other spaces. This is how reactionaries self-victimize to excuse, say, transphobia.
Read the rules, if you disagree with the rules in a community, don’t participate, make your own. It’s hardly power tripping if you actively seek to violate rules clearly laid out.
That’s what most people are doing
As a mod, we don’t really “hover”, we do have a queue of reported posts and reported comments and deal with them as they pop up.
Most likely some other .ml user saw the “tankie” comment, reported it, and the .ml mod did the .ml mod thing.
I fail to see a useful distinction between me posting what I think, and a mod seeing it and deleting it, versus me posting what I think, someone reporting it, and then the mod deleting it. In both cases someone’s standing over me policing what viewpoints I’m allowed to express, which is bad.
I actually do get why someone would want to delete “tankie,” since it could be taken as a gratuitous insult. And I do get mod fatigue and running out of care to give as an underlying issue for a lot of this. I think a big part of the underlying issue is depending on volunteer moderators to keep the whole system together and making basically unlimited demands on them. I was just talking about the general censorship problem on lemmy.ml, not trying to say that every case is always power tripping mods.
As I wrote, this is not the first time I encountered such behavior. And while you might not care, I was curious to know if there were better solutions than just accepting these kind of things passively.
To me it is wrong for such prominent instances to always be the ones getting away with this type of behavior
Getting away with the behavior of tempbans from a single comm pointlessly insulting?
You’ll find that on basically every instance, they’ll just have a different standard on what is an unhelpful insult and who it is okay to attack. For example, other instances will tolerate the typical American acceptance of xenophobia and .ml will not. And if you simply describe someone on .world as excusing support for genocide because they’re trying to justify advocating for someone enabling it, they’ll ban you for “misinformation” and “trolling” because their liberal partisan tendencies have been shaken.
Yeah, you can take it to the .ml admins, but speaking from my own interactions with my own admins, I really doubt they’ll interfere in your favor over a 5 day ban.
I wasn’t going to mention it, but as it’s not your first time, (removed) is more specific than [email protected]
Instances known for power tripping are getting less and less popular over time
Genuine question, why do you try to posture yourself as uninvolved in drama but regularly plug the anticommunist drama community specializing in out of context screen grabs run by a gamergate right-winger seemingly whenever relevant? It seems more like you’re trying to sow seeds of anticommunism without taking the blame for it.
I link to [email protected] any time a mod power trips, the most recent examples being the Lemmy.world decisions to remove comments about jury nullification.
If (removed) screens are taken out of context, people who want to add the context can come in and explain it.
If that mod bans them, then it’s power tripping, it’s going to be reported to [email protected] and then many people (including me) will probably stop using that community
You understand that by posting the links that that’s tacit approval of them and an endorsement, correct? If you agree that MWoG is as I describe, then that implies endorsement of that behavior. Moreover, leftists are banned from that comm if they contextualize, it’s explicitly a right wing left-punching comm. You do not post right-punching left wing comms, at least not in my experience, and as such shows a clear pattern.
Again, I ask, why? It’s fairly obvious to me based on your actions that you are trying to stir up anticommunist drama, and I am giving you the platform to explain yourself, your reasoning, and explain the bias you show.
Alright, to be honest that whole right-wing issue with MWoG was kind of on my backlog.
I remember seeing a few problematic threads from the main mod in the past, especially advocating to keep federation with exploding-heads:
@[email protected], do you still stand by those comments?
I just had a look at the modlog (https://sh.itjust.works/modlog/25693), there seems to be indeed a few strange cases for “apologia”. Unfortutanely, we can’t see the comments in this cases.
I’ll edit my comment in the meantime to remove the mention to MWoG.
While we are discussing, what is your stance on [email protected] ?
Appreciate the clarity.
As for yeptb, I don’t have the same familiarity with it. From what I know, it rightly targets LW moderators so it’s less dedicated to an anti-Left drama circle, but it’s still a drama comm so I don’t personally care about it either way. Dbzer0 is something I critically support, they aren’t nearly as bad as other instances can be but frustratingly attract the “techie western anarchist” archetype that seems to never be able to engage honestly with Marxist theory. That said, it’s a mixed bag overall, a lot are good comrades as well.
That’s my 2 major cents there.
Thank you for your insight, have a good one!