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Nissan tracking your sexual activity is absolutely the weirdest privacy violation I’ve ever seen or heard of
Now I’m just curious what data they’re collecting and how. Like are they seeing if I’m getting down in the back seat or getting road head on the highway, or are they pulling this info off a connected phone?
… Because I log every sexual encounter in my calendar ofc.
Tuesday : backseat boobie
Wednesday : stickshift sniffy
Thursday : glovebox bollox
How can you skip Fornicate Friday? Slammin’ Saturday and Sunday Funday?
Also. Fuck Mondays.
Sounds like a healthy week
Sweet weekly love
and you know when i’m down to just my socks, what time it is
Possibly the Bluetooth/WiFi connection with your phone? That’s all I can think of.
I don’t think they’re intentionally collecting sexual activity. Moreso that they might incidentally, via your phone app.
Chief, next year we need less sports cars more minivans
They also want you genetic material. I wonder why.
Clones.
Nissan
New Son
Oh my god
They don’t, but their lawyers made them put that in after other companies have been successfully sued for violating biometric privacy laws. They’re casting as wide a net as possible in regards to users forfeiting their rights to their biomimetic information to make it impossible for users to win future lawsuits.
So now they’re covered if someone tries to sue after their cheating is exposed, or their sexual preferences, or their genetic disability, etc.
Aren’t they already violating biometric privacy laws by unnecessary permissions? At least GDPR says company should not ask for things that are unnecessary for providing service.
EU
Edit: … I’m assuming I put my phone in my pocket before finishing this comment and accidentally hit send. I have no idea what I was trying to say.
It’s for their upcoming line of Combine harvesters.
Don’t drink the water, it makes you forget
Excuse me, sir, but… what?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/OYcmF9IAJbU
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
well that doesn’t really answer the question “what is information on sexual activity and how would fucking car has it”… unless there is some indoor camera whose videos nissan secretly uploads.
Nissan is the biggest pornhub partner
Also Kia. What are the odds that two car companies would think of something like this?
The suspension team is led by a perfectionist.
That’s super weird
even sex toys typically provide more detailed security information about their products than cars.
Lmao.
Probably in some jurisdictions they are medical equipment and regulated as such
Build you own GPL GNU car
If you get a bunch of them together, you have a herd
Or a HURD.
TAPR or CERN OHL, probably— Kit cars do already exist, though are apparently aimed at hobbyists, and usually just partial cosmetic customizations. “Metal box on wheels with motor” ain’t exactly rocket science, although quality could be challenging and that’s especially important when it comes to safety.
That said, surely the production costs of modern vehicles needed to do their basic job— Efficient-ish and safe-ish transportation from point A to point B— Can’t possibly be worth their increasingly inflated costs? There’s probably something to be said about the marketability of a sub-$10,000 basic OHL car that you can choose to scratch build or kit-build or buy fully built.
And get a lawsuit
cd /code/cars/manufacturers/nissan/altima
make -B
cp -r /* /var/www
Curl https://192.168.1.2/cars/built/altima
Downloaded a goddamn car son.
I mean. Most modern cars have GPS and network capabilities. Just that allows them to track your travels and daily behavior.
Probably would vary depending upon the brand, but I wonder how hard it would be to disable the network. At some point would the vehicle refuse to operate without a network connection?
Maybe not even intentionally. When games first became “online only” it was a big deal, now many games just break if they can’t initialize an internet connection. Even ones that don’t use it.
Which is total and complete bullshit that should be illegal.
The best part is when the publisher shuts down the server on their end so the game breaks even if you are connected to the internet. I’m still waiting for Blood Dragon to get a patch to remove the periodic calls home, but it doesn’t seem likely at this point
this is a legit usecase of game cracking
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VW hides a fair few of theirs behind the gauge cluster.
Imagine getting lost in the middle of nowhere and your car refuses to start because it can’t get internet
That sounds like a feature to me. Gotta pay extra for that offline start capability. And if you don’t designate this far as your offline remote start car before hand you’re fucked.
Probably not, I’m sure there’s plenty of situations they wouldn’t have network connections, so we’d have prohably heard about it if it were na issue with existing cars.
I don’t think so. The risk of a PR disaster because a car refused to start, due to them not having a signal either due to an outage, or being underground, is too great.
Car companies probably don’t want to deal with the headlines of “Man left stranded in parking garage after his car was unable to connect to the internet”, or “Woman marooned on mountainside because her car could not connect with the servers”.
At least, not until connection technology is good enough, or connectivity ubiquitous enough that neither of those are big enough issues for most.
I’d be interested in the ramifications of just clipping the network module/chip
Some brands it’s easy.
I know my Ford just has a data toggle. Turn it off and it stops sending and receiving data from the cloud.
But stuff stops working when I do that. The traffic, and app stuff all need it I think. Gps has a toggle too but it just seems to turn off the map stuff.
The newest car ive ever driven is from 2007, I legit dont see a downside to disabling that shit.
What we want is to be able to direct the data, in standard protocols, to a server of our choosing. To be able to use apps of our choosing. No damn lock-ins.
If they don’t get benefits from the data, why won’t spend money putting in the features
It probably need to be regulation. It’s not a space competition alone will work for. Very few consumers will choose one car over another due to privacy options.
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the worst mozillas seen.
… Yet
If experience has taught me anything, it’s that things can always get worse.
There’s always someone ready to limbo under that low bar…
We need extremely punitive legislation to punish these companies for stealing data from their customers.
And not monetary damages. Subpoena internal memos and find out who gave the order, then lock them up.
No, just need courts to do their fucking job correctly. Making new laws to fix problems only works when they are enforced properly. If courts and governments did what they are supposed to do then we wouldnt be where we are. But here we are
A boring dystopia
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Can anyone tell me how these vehicles are getting my data out of the car and into the hands of Toyota, or whoever, if I don’t use their app and never connect the vehicle to any networks?
I imagine the dealerships could probably pull my info out of the car when I take it in for a checkup, but outside of that I can’t think of how my data is getting offloaded.
Not trying to be a turd, I’m genuinely curious
OnStar has been a thing since '96. They’ve been putting antennas on cars to locate or other wise track them for a long time. One of the things that bothers me about this article is that they don’t say what year models or anything. While I’m sure that for the most part not all the automakers started this practice the exact same year, I am sure there was a starting point. Before then they couldn’t track you. After they could. That’s kind of disappointing. There are some people who think there early 2000’s cars are safe. I am not so sure.
They also don’t mention the fact that if they are using 3G or 2G or Edge components chances are they can’t still be collecting data on users driving those vehicles. But anything with a newer onboard modem would be effected I should think.
The cars themselves have connectivity that can be transmitted over cellular networks (same as/similar to whatever OnStar uses). Plus if you ever connect your phone via Bluetooth to listen to music or plug it directly into the car with a cable that can transfer data, standard protocol on a lot of cars is to just download everything off the phone that it can access.
So… hows the industry for stripping all this crap and then some. Cant imagine there isnt one for atleast repair and replacement.
Not gonna go anywhere. At least not in a lot of modern countries. Vehicle safety authorities dont fuck around. And unless you have the bankroll mercedes and volkswagen have you are gonna get sued into oblivion for violating a bunch of stuff. Or just sued until they bleed you dry
I live in California, so long as it passes smog and the check engine light aint on they dont give a fuck. Mostly cause the car modding scene here is somewhat demented.
standard protocol on a lot of cars is to just download everything off the phone that it can access.
First I’m hearing about this capability. How do you figure they’re doing that with a Bluetooth connection?
Key word is access. Not everything on your phone is available to the vehicle, but if, for instance, you allow your car to access your contacts, it downloads all of them with all the metadata which the company can then sell. Or internally run through algorithms to profile you and everyone who uses your vehicle. If you use Android Auto or CarPlay, or just connect to the entertainment systems, they’ll skim whatever metadata they can and phone it home. Even worse if you use a car’s official app, it will use your own phone as the transmission point.
No, it doesn’t immediately transmit an entire backup of your phone over a personal Bluetooth connection, but I was very precise in how I worded my sentence.
They’ve all got cell phone modems in them essentially. They use LTE or whatever it’s called these days.
Purely theoretical as I don’t have any sources on how cars are doing this, but they could be communicating over low band networks similar to how Amazon home devices make a mesh network. Your car could send data to another car of the same manufacturer, who then phones home that data.
It’s simple they have modems in them.
is it necessary for our cars to be connected to internet? I mean if you need maps, jus use the phone with a stand.
Phone screens are very small and hard to see while driving.
But no, it isn’t. And I have disabled any connectivity in the last 4 cars I have owned.
1 phone is tiny 2 phone doesn’t know what your vehicle charge is at and where to charge
I’m not interested in any vehicle that requires an app or has its own connection to the internet.
We don’t know how far back this problem will affect the automakers in question, but I can tell you that OnStar services launched in 1996. So don’t be surprised if your car does in fact have an internet connection. Unless I guess you don’t own a car. In that case, congrats.
My car is nowhere near that smart, and I don’t pay any subscription fees so I doubt I’m rolling around Australia with a data connection that I don’t know about.
You very well might be. Your car might be “dumb” to the user, but still have a culular modem that transmits information to the manufacturer.
The manufacturer has already paid the subscription upfront, and can get very very low deals from the culular networks due to the low amount of data transmitted.
Unless your car is older than 2010, there’s almost a 100% chance your car has a data connection and is collecting data. I’m not sure what you think you’re the exception to the rule.
2012 Toyota. Toyota T-Connect didn’t become available until 2014.
It’s also a paid service! It requires a sim card and a plan, and would have relied on the factory entertainment unit which I have removed.
I think you are mistaking ‘black box’ type data logging with an always-on internet connection phoning home with the ability to turn features on and off which is a more recent and far more sinister phenomenon.
Does the car still send data if you don’t subscribe to the data service? Because my car has lte, and for the life of me I can’t figure out why I would ever need my car to supply data when I already have a phone, that does hotspot and has a faster connection.
Mozilla has a separate article about how data is collected.
There is a very good chance it is collecting and sending data even if you aren’t subscribing to the services. The modem is there, GPS is there, sensors are there, and someone will pay for information about you. It’s a no brainer for them.
(Mozilla’s full Privacy Not Included breaks stuff down by manufacturer)
Well so these articles say how data is collected and where it might be going, but they don’t say much about that intermediate step of how the data is being sent if I’m not connecting my vehicle to a network or to the auto maker’s app unless I missed something.
I’m curious to know how my data would be offloaded if I don’t use the app and the car doesn’t have a data connection. I’m sure the dealership will get a data dump when they hook up the OBD cable for maintenance, but other than that how does the data leave the vehicle?
If the car doesn’t have any data connection at all then it probably isn’t (mine is in the same boat), but that is fewer and fewer cars these days. That is different than the situation where the car does have the option for some sort of connected telematics but a person does not subscribe to it. They are still likely being used behind the scenes even if the owner doesn’t touch them.
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Depends on the car but I’d hazard that yes it does. If it has a data connection according to some others in this thread and on other posts, they turn it on regardless of whether or not you subscribe for services. So for instance you still can get Sirius XM ads and so on if you have Sirius satellite radio installed as part of your cars package. If they can send you ads chances are they want to know if they’re effective and they want to better target those ads. Easy to do when they monitor which radio stations you have programmed and which ones you listen to most etc.
Following this cause that was my question too
Not everyone has an unlimited data plan, and also other devices might be in the car to watch things or play games.
But why would pay to get data in the car vs upgrading your current plan and using the hotspot function?
I wouldn’t, but maybe some people don’t want their kids hooked to their phone, or guests in their car.
I’m too cheap to be their target audience.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
According to a report published by the Mozilla Foundation on Wednesday, cars are “the official worst category of products for privacy” that it’s ever reviewed.
All 25 of the car brands that were researched for the report — including Ford, Toyota, Volkswagen, BMW, and Tesla — failed to meet the nonprofit organization’s minimum privacy standards and were found to collect more personal data from customers than necessary.
Mozilla says it also couldn’t confirm that any of the automakers could meet the organization’s minimum security standards regarding data encryption and protection against theft.
In fact, it claims dating apps and even sex toys typically provide more detailed security information about their products than cars.
“While we worried that our doorbells and watches that connect to the internet might be spying on us, car brands quietly entered the data business by turning their vehicles into powerful data-gobbling machines,” says Mozilla in the report.
The report was so scathing that the organization said the advice it typically provides to help customers protect their personal data feels like “tiny drops in a massive bucket.” Instead, the Mozilla Foundation has started a petition urging car companies to stop the data collection programs they’re unfairly benefitting from, expressing that “our hope is that increasing awareness will encourage others to hold car companies accountable for their terrible privacy practices.”
The original article contains 584 words, the summary contains 222 words. Saved 62%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
“Mozilla Foundation found that all 25 of the car brands it reviewed had glaring privacy concerns, even compared to the makers of sex toys”
Wait so my sex toys are collecting my data now?
It depends. Does any of them have a phone app?
Usage stats with a leaderboard?
Tesla was the worst-ranked brand in the study, getting flagged in every privacy category — only the second time this happened. Tesla’s AI-powered autopilot was highlighted as “untrustworthy” following its involvement in numerous crashes and fatalities.
Yeah, that does sound untrustworthy.
Huh?! If I look at the source of the article at Mozilla, Tesla is actually ranked as almost least creepy.
So I do not understand where this is coming from. Also the picture of the article only showing teslas is highly suggestive
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/
This is the article being referenced. Specifically, the table listing the brands from “bad to worst”:
It looks to be based on user ratings (for the sort), and could change dynamically
Likely a lot of people dog piled on Tesla, then read the others.
The Tesla one’s main issue is “they grab a lot of data and don’t seem competent protecting it” which is less bad than “we will sell your sexual history if we can grab it from the car, and have a lot of sensors too”
This is very confusing
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I thought this discussion was about privacy?
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Autopilot has never been “involved” in a crash anymore than your parking sensors have. It is a driver assistance system. It manages your cruise control and keeps you between the lines on the highway. The “driver” (you know, the person operating the vehicle) is the one responsible for avoiding crashes.
People might blame it less if it weren’t called autopilot or full self driving.
What do you think “autopilot” means?
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Actual Link to Mozilla’s reviews: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/
For some reason, journalists (or their editor) seem to hate linking to actual sources. But at leastthe article helps point you in the right direction for keywords to look out for with each manufacturer.Edit: The link is there on the second sentence. I just missed it.
