Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.

Feddit.org now bans:

  • The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”

  • Comparing Israel to the Nazis

  • Calls to end Zionism

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel

And much more. The full original post can be found here, or

Click here for full text of original post:

Hi.

In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.

While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.

And with that, let’s go:

In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”.

Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun.

There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.

If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
  • Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
  • Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
  • The slogan “from the river…”
  • Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
  • … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis

Comments will not be removed for the following:

  • Denouncing genocide.
  • Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
  • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
  • Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.

If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @[email protected] account (which all mods have access to).

To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).

  • A news report:

    Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […]

  • A legal treatise:

    In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office.

  • Press release from the previous government:

    In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).

  • Another news report

    In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …)

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Amnesty International

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Human Rights Watch

federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)

  • MummysLittleBloodSlut@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    52·
    1 hour ago

    I got banned from that community for saying zionism is antisemitic. The mods called it “rage bait”.

    I was actually testing whether the mods are zionists, and since they were enraged by my post, I think they are.

  • FundMECFS@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    146·
    2 hours ago

    Just FYI. There’s truth to this, but this post headline is very clickbait.

    You’re still allowed to do things like call out the genocide, call the Israeli government facist etc.

    What you can’t do is stuff like call for a violent overthrow of the state of Israel.

    (Which I disagree with because since the status quo is violence I think violence is justified in overturning it)

    But anyways. It’s less extreme than the headline suggests.

    And also it’s in an effort to comply with German laws. (Which again, I disagree with, but I’m not the one at risk of getting raided here so yeah).

    • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      1·
      10 minutes ago

      Banning the call to dissolve the genocidal Israeli Apartheid would be akin to saying you can disagree with Donald Trump, but you are not allowed to say that he should be impeached.

      Germans are not allowing the problem nor the solution to be named. Thus they live in a vague haze where both sides are guilty and there is seemingly no solution possible except the full genocide of all Palestinians.

    • Match!!@pawb.socialEnglish
      5·
      2 hours ago

      Huh, the rules amendment in OP says that they can’t say the Israeli government is “expansionist” or “far-right”, why would “fascist” be okay?

      • 3abas@lemm.eeEnglish
        4·
        1 hour ago

        Is you want to understand the spirit of the rules, look no further past the first one:

        Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.

        Why Jewish in particular? How is “equal rights for all people” compatible with “one group of people in particular”?

        Jewish supremacism, Israel and Zionism is Jewish ISIS, and trying to hide that part of Israel and punish any discourse around that problem is fascism.

        They may let you call Israel fascist in passing, but they won’t let you describe its fascism, that is the bannable offense.

  • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    12·
    1 hour ago

    I don’t think they are actually zionist or pro-genocide. But they are definitely not good mods, and they just didn’t handle it in a good way. It’s not the first time I’ve seen problems with that community moderation team, they tend inho to powertrip. I suppose they are friends or the same people as feddit.org admins and that’s why they defend them so much. But I don’t think that moderation team is up to the task of moderating a big community.

    Nothing wrong with it, moderation is hard, very hard. And not everyone is qualified for it. They should just step back. Or just close the community if they are so heavy censored by their country legislation.

  • JiveTurkey@lemmy.worldEnglish
    544·
    7 hours ago

    I get their concerns but we shouldn’t be bullied into silence. The Israeli government is a piece of shit and we should all be allowed to say that until they’ve proven otherwise.

    • Cris@lemmy.worldEnglish
      141·
      4 hours ago

      From the text of their original post it sounds like you’re still allowed to say that. It’s worth reading the post text itself (not saying that to change your stance, I have complicated feelings about this choice by them, but knowing what they’re actually saying is worthwhile)

      • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
        113·
        3 hours ago

        You can do anything except demand things which could meaningfully resolve the issue.

        People are not being allowed to call for the dissolution of the Israeli Apartheid government.

        Or compare its genocidal deeds to those for which the Germans say “never again”.

        Because “never again” in Germany does not count for brown people.

        People are only allowed to voice slight discontent with Israel. Forcing people to call a major crime a minor crime is a massive form of repression in itself and it serves to downplay reality, while pretending there is no censorship.

        • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldEnglish
          71·
          2 hours ago

          Calling a state criminal, expantionist, genocidal, brutal, saying that they should answer for their crimes, give back palestinian territories immediatly, be boycotted by the whole world, even be subject to military intervention is still perfectly fine, and that’s clearly not “slight discontent”. If you were conscious of this, you message is huge bad faith.

          What they do not allow is calling for the end of Israel, in any way. That’s indeed a major crackdown on freedom of expression, but it does not leave you wordless for Israel criticism, unless your only goal is to be against Israel, and you don’t care being alongside Palestine.

  • corsicanguppy@lemmy.caEnglish
    91·
    6 hours ago

    Can we, as users, prevent our own posts and comments from federating to a given server?

    They’re not banning me for my accusations of genocide; I’m Banning Them

  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
    11711·
    11 hours ago

    Y’all should actually read the post. They’re clear that they don’t want to do this but fear extreme repression by the German government, and they even listed examples of what exactly they’re trying to avoid. I’m no Israel apologist, but I’m convinced.

    • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      72·
      3 hours ago

      Feddit users commenting beneath it support this. One of them made this “meme”:

      Feddit.org has also been banning users for things such as comparing Israel to the Nazis before they made this post. Then they owned up to it as their personal views. This is why they do not say they disagree with the German laws but they “do not wish to discuss it.”

    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      502·
      10 hours ago

      I agree. Nobody should be risking their safety / livelihood / whatever to host a random internet discussion site. That doesn’t mean we should leave the situation as it is. I believe the main concern is to move off the !europe comm there and onto the new one at [email protected]

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
        315·
        9 hours ago

        This is the best solution.

        Zionism is a fascist ideology. There is nothing to gain from hosting in a country where people feel compelled to suppress opposition to and liberation against that fascist ideology out of fear of incarceration and police brutality

        Free Palestine

        ACAB

    • Chozo@fedia.io
      707·
      11 hours ago

      I’ve read the post, and I’m still unhappy with their decision. Capitulation only accelerates fascism.

      • then_three_more@lemmy.worldEnglish
        154·
        8 hours ago

        Sounds like you need to just make sure you’re specifying the current government of Israel and their actions, rather than the state of Israel in general terms or as a overall concept.

        Comments will not be removed for the following: Denouncing genocide. • Denouncing Israeli war crimes. • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement. • Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
        372·
        11 hours ago

        That’s true, but it’s still up to them whether they want to get arrested over social media comments somebody else made.

  • frostysauce@lemmy.worldEnglish
    4912·
    11 hours ago

    The title of this post is sensationalized, click-baitey, and factually incorrect according to the posted text. It’s as if OP either didn’t read the text they copy/pasted or they are trying to intentionally stir up shit…

      • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldEnglish
        33·
        2 hours ago

        “they will ban criticism of Israel” : they will only ban calls for end of Israel and equating Nazis and Israel. You can still criticize Israel. Its like saying “They ban fruits” when they only ban oranges. It’s still a problem, but you’re making it larger than it seems, that’s on the path of clickbait/sensationalism (i do not think that this was intended of you though, it’s just what comes out of the way you wrote it).

        • rammer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          3·
          1 hour ago

          Equating Nazis and Zionists, if the shoe fits. You should be allowed to say it.

          • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldEnglish
            12·
            42 minutes ago

            Overall agreeing with you, you should at least be able to defend this pov.

            But that should be the title instead of ‘bans all criticism of Israel’.

    • saltesc@lemmy.worldEnglish
      139·
      9 hours ago

      50% of the post here are. Echo chambers rely on most users never reading the article.

    • lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
      84·
      10 hours ago

      Two out of three. I read the post and that’s exactly what the admins of F.O say will do. It’s them who are stirring up shit.

  • electric_nan@lemmy.mlEnglish
    307·
    10 hours ago

    They should just shut it down rather than comply with laws which punish antipathy towards a genocidal state.

    • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11·
      2 hours ago

      It does not strictly punish antipathy towards a genocidal state, but rather antipathy towards a genocidal stage when they take the forms of call for an end of this state or equating this state with Nazis. It’s a problem, it’s bad, but please stop saying ‘they won’t let me say Israel is bad’ cuz that’s not the case (for the instance, don’t know about actual german state itself)

  • defunct_punk@lemmy.worldEnglish
    7911·
    12 hours ago

    Germany looking 80 years in the past like “let’s do that again.”

    Israel is NOT a Jewish state, it’s a Neo-Nazi regime. If I wanted to kill as many jews as possible, I’d convince them that they “belong” in a tiny country surrounded by neighbours who want to destroy them.

  • Dojan@lemmy.worldEnglish
    243·
    11 hours ago

    It amuses me that expressing understanding with the retaliation is forbidden. I definitely understand why a militant extremist group has arisen after decades of oppression and genocide.

    Like, how do you negotiate your way out of that peacefully? Where in history has oppression on that level been defeated through diplomacy?

    I seem to have forgotten the part where the allies defeated Nazi Germany by asking nicely. Surely no war was fought for recognising black people as humans in the U.S.

    Perhaps Ukraine should put down their weapons and ask Russia to pretty please stop invading their country and killing their people.

    Ugh.

    • enkers@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      2·
      8 hours ago

      This one here, right?

      Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.

      I don’t think expressing understanding is either endorsement or justification. So as written, it should be fine, but since it comes down to the mods interpretation, who knows what the outcome would actually be.