Obviously people in other countries don’t have a right to have a say in leadership here. All the people mentioned here have exactly the rights others have to vote. Obviously the relatively stupid beta democracy 0.03 we are stuck with doesn’t provide very good protection nor ability to achieve even reasonable ends in our rather fucky system but that wasn’t really the question.
The question is given large scale fuckery are we able to change gears. We were up until now it looks like we won’t be able to going forward which is a substantial difference.
Obviously people in other countries don’t have a right to have a say in leadership here.
Why is “obvious” that people having their countries destroyed and their families murdered by the US government shouldn’t be allowed to have a say in it? This sounds like white supremacism, frankly.
All the people mentioned here have exactly the rights others have to vote.
So you’re just abandoning your original claim. You’re also just straight up wrong, by the way, not all of those people have the right to vote. Especially the ones who were murdered by the state.
Obviously the relatively stupid beta democracy 0.03
So what’s the line between “stupid beta democracy” and just not being a democracy?
We were up until now
No you fucking weren’t, what?
we won’t be able to going forward which is a substantial difference.
Why is “obvious” that people having their countries destroyed and their families murdered by the US government shouldn’t be allowed to have a say in it? This sounds like white supremacism, frankly.
It is pretty obvious insofar as every democracy in history has been a democracy of the it’s members by which they determine it’s leadership and therefore its direction. It’s not clear how or why anyone would allow other nations citizens a vote both logistically and reasonably since other nations are going to have motivations and aims which are directly opposed to ours. Absent an overarching government in which everyone is a member it makes little sense and would destroy any notion of self determination.
So you’re just abandoning your original claim.
The original claim was that it was going to get a lot worse before it gets better because historically every other country that gave into a populist fascist regime had a period of grave strife before it returning to democracy herein defined as it has been traditionally as the people getting to choose their leadership and thus their direction. You are the one that turned it into me continually explaining basic shit to you like why Chinese people can’t vote to pick the representative of California.
The assertion after that became more broadly that prior to 2021 we had a democracy. Not a good one but one in which we could throw the leadership out if they fucked up enough and pick new folks. In 2021 they lost and tried to take over. Now they are back and entirely off prior rails. They are making destructive choices that are going to lead to them losing any fair contest by 2028 and are based entirely on prior behavior and statements by self not going to give up power. It is going to get very very bad.
It is pretty obvious insofar as every democracy in history has been a democracy of the it’s members by which they determine it’s leadership and therefore its direction.
So any society where any portion of the population got to vote is a democracy? The Holy Roman Empire was democracy? The Catholic Church is a democracy? The original Roman Empire was a democracy?
It’s not clear how or why anyone would allow other nations citizens a vote both logistically and reasonably since other nations are going to have motivations and aims which are directly opposed to ours.
So if it’s just a matter of making sure only people who have the same motivations and aims as you are allowed to vote, why allow anyone except the current administration to vote?
it makes little sense and would destroy any notion of self determination.
I would say it destroys any notion of self determination to have no say in the government that occupies and destroys your country.
herein defined as it has been traditionally as the people getting to choose their leadership and thus their direction.
A definition that the US has never met.
You are the one that turned it into me continually explaining basic shit to you like why Chinese people can’t vote to pick the representative of California.
No, that was you electing to miss the point.
we could throw the leadership out if they fucked up enough and pick new folks.
“We” here not including the people being brutalized by that leadership. And even then, only every four years, and even then, you never actually do it.
It is going to get very very bad.
Only for those who privileged enough not to already have it very very bad
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
de·moc·ra·cy
/dəˈmäkrəsē/
noun
a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
Historically democracy has included those in which only an eligible portion of the population votes in contrast to monarchy or autocracy where nobody does. It’s not my fault you don’t know what words mean.
It’s also weird that you think America going to absolute shit won’t make it more dangerous to the world.
Obviously people in other countries don’t have a right to have a say in leadership here. All the people mentioned here have exactly the rights others have to vote. Obviously the relatively stupid beta democracy 0.03 we are stuck with doesn’t provide very good protection nor ability to achieve even reasonable ends in our rather fucky system but that wasn’t really the question.
The question is given large scale fuckery are we able to change gears. We were up until now it looks like we won’t be able to going forward which is a substantial difference.
Why is “obvious” that people having their countries destroyed and their families murdered by the US government shouldn’t be allowed to have a say in it? This sounds like white supremacism, frankly.
So you’re just abandoning your original claim. You’re also just straight up wrong, by the way, not all of those people have the right to vote. Especially the ones who were murdered by the state.
So what’s the line between “stupid beta democracy” and just not being a democracy?
No you fucking weren’t, what?
How is that substantially different from now?
It is pretty obvious insofar as every democracy in history has been a democracy of the it’s members by which they determine it’s leadership and therefore its direction. It’s not clear how or why anyone would allow other nations citizens a vote both logistically and reasonably since other nations are going to have motivations and aims which are directly opposed to ours. Absent an overarching government in which everyone is a member it makes little sense and would destroy any notion of self determination.
The original claim was that it was going to get a lot worse before it gets better because historically every other country that gave into a populist fascist regime had a period of grave strife before it returning to democracy herein defined as it has been traditionally as the people getting to choose their leadership and thus their direction. You are the one that turned it into me continually explaining basic shit to you like why Chinese people can’t vote to pick the representative of California.
The assertion after that became more broadly that prior to 2021 we had a democracy. Not a good one but one in which we could throw the leadership out if they fucked up enough and pick new folks. In 2021 they lost and tried to take over. Now they are back and entirely off prior rails. They are making destructive choices that are going to lead to them losing any fair contest by 2028 and are based entirely on prior behavior and statements by self not going to give up power. It is going to get very very bad.
So any society where any portion of the population got to vote is a democracy? The Holy Roman Empire was democracy? The Catholic Church is a democracy? The original Roman Empire was a democracy?
So if it’s just a matter of making sure only people who have the same motivations and aims as you are allowed to vote, why allow anyone except the current administration to vote?
I would say it destroys any notion of self determination to have no say in the government that occupies and destroys your country.
A definition that the US has never met.
No, that was you electing to miss the point.
“We” here not including the people being brutalized by that leadership. And even then, only every four years, and even then, you never actually do it.
Only for those who privileged enough not to already have it very very bad
Since you are unclear
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more de·moc·ra·cy /dəˈmäkrəsē/ noun
Historically democracy has included those in which only an eligible portion of the population votes in contrast to monarchy or autocracy where nobody does. It’s not my fault you don’t know what words mean.
It’s also weird that you think America going to absolute shit won’t make it more dangerous to the world.
Well you know you’ve got nothing when you start trying to waste time by copy pasting from the dictionary.