• TootSweet@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Be the change you want to see in the world, people. Don’t use any Node (or Rust or Python or Java or whatever) modules that have more dependencies than they absolutely, positively, 100%, for real have to. It’s really not that hard. It doesn’t have to be this way.

    • who@feddit.org
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      1 day ago

      This applies to developers, too.

      External dependencies put end users at risk, so I avoid them as much as possible. If that means I have to rethink my design or write some boring modules myself, then so be it.

      • kibiz0r@midwest.social
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        1 day ago

        Depends on the use case, and what you mean by “external dependencies”.

        Black box remote services you’re invoking over HTTP, or source files that are available for inspection and locked by their hash so their contents don’t change without explicit approval?

        Cuz I’ll almost entirely agree on the former, but almost entirely disagree on the latter.

        In my career:

        I’ve seen multiple vulns introduced by devs hand-writing code that doesn’t follow best practices while there were packages available that did.

        I have not yet seen a supply chain attack make it to prod.

        The nice thing about supply chain attacks though: they get publicly disclosed. Your intern’s custom OAuth endpoint that leaks the secret? Nobody’s gonna tell you about that.

        • who@feddit.org
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          10 hours ago

          I didn’t think I would have to spell this out, but when I wrote “as much as possible”, I was acknowledging that some libraries are either too complex or too security-sensitive to be reasonably homebrewed by the unqualified. (Perhaps “as much as reasonably possible” would have been better phrasing.) Where the line lies will depend on the person/team, of course, but the vast majority of libraries do not fall into that category. I was generalizing.

          And yes, some third-party libs might get so much public scrutiny as to be considered safer than what someone would create in-house, depending on their skills. But safety in numbers sometimes turns out to be a false assumption, and at the end of the day, choosing this approach still pushes external risks (attack surface) onto users. Good luck. It hardly matters to the general point, though, because most libs do not have this level of scrutiny.

          Let’s also remember that pinning dependencies is not a silver bullet. If I didn’t trust someone to follow “best practices”, I don’t think I would trust their certification of a third-party library hash any more than I would trust their own code.

          With all that said, let me re-state my approach for clarity:

          • I minimize dependencies first. Standard libraries are great for this.
          • When something more cannot reasonably be avoided, I choose very carefully, prioritizing the safety of my users over my own convenience.
          • Sometimes that means changing my original design, or spending my time learning or building things that I hadn’t planned to. I find the results to be worth it.
    • InvalidName2@lemmy.zip
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      1 day ago

      Which sounds like great, practical advice in a theoretical perfect world!

      But, the reality of the situation is that professionals are usually balancing a myriad of concerns and considerations using objective and subjective evaluations of what’s required of us and quite often inefficiency, whether in the form of programmatic complexity or in the form of disk storage or otherwise, has a relatively low precedent compared to everything else we need to achieve if we want happy clients and a pay check.

      • kautau@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Lol yeah working in enterprise software for a long time, it’s more like:

        1. Import what you think you need, let the CI do a security audit, and your senior engineers to berate you if you import a huge unnecessary library where you only need one thing
        2. Tree shake everything during the CI build so really the only code that gets built for production is what is being used
        3. Consistently audit imports for security flaws and address them immediately (again, a CI tool)
        4. CI

        Basically just have a really good set of teams working on CI in addition to the backend/frontend/ux/security/infrastructure/ whatever else teams you have

      • TootSweet@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Saying “we can’t in practice reduce the complexity of our dependency tree because we need happy clients and a pay check” is like saying “we can’t in practice turn on the propeller because we need to get this airplane off the ground”.

        • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
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          1 day ago

          Clients don’t care much about the dependency graph. They do care about delivering on time and sometimes not reinventing a bunch of wheels is crucial for that.

            • marlowe221@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              Amen.

              I have sorted out so many JS dependency tangles for my team members, both front end AND back end, that I am loathe to import anything I don’t absolutely have no choice about.

              I will rewrite some stuff before I import it…