This is just idealism, though. Power isn’t a self-driving end, profit is what’s important in capitalism, and is why socialist economies achieve better metrics even with lower resources. What you’re doing right now is “propaganda,” in that you’re trying to convince me (or others) of your views.
It was just called thoughts before governments weaponized it. A government or state, like a corporation, will always act in its own best interest. Which is why they should not exist. We will continue to be inundated with propaganda and divided until they are abolished.
A government or state, like a corporation, will always act in its own best interest.
I can’t think of any human structure, or any person, who doesn’t tend to act in their own perceived best interest. The issue is when self interest contradicts mutual interest.
Self-interest is an important concept in understanding why capitalist corporations are consistently antisocial and why most states act against their citizens, but self-interest isn’t a reason in itself.
It was just called thoughts before governments weaponized it.
Government propaganda definitely predates the modern English language. e.g. Roman Empire
You never have anything to say that means anything. My number 1 troll. Cowbee could convince the world of what they believe which is cool. You would come along and ruin it afterwards.
And you treat Cowbee with compete disrespect, wasting his time without actually taking in anything hes saying. Seeing that, why the fuck would not just call you a fuck head.
No, propaganda is just the intentional dispertion of information to spread views you align with. Non-government groups do propaganda all the time. Secondly, governments are only extensions of a class, they aren’t an independent entity, and as such are thoroughly enmeshed and dependent on the mode of production.
Whatever you define them as they are hierarchal structures used to secure wealth and resources from the main bulk of the populace. Hierarchies cannot exist in a truly equal system.
They aren’t used to secure wealth and resources from the working class, they are extensions of the ruling class in society. In socialism, that’s the working class, and the state oppresses the bourgeoisie and defends from outside attack. There’s also administration, which is a necessary hierarchy even in anarchist systems, as production at a large scale requires managers, just like battlefields need footsoldiers, tacticians, and strategians.
Anarchist systems do not require hierarchy. Even if they require some management that can be easily achieved without creating a hierarchy. This has been fun. Thanks ML Brigade. And they are used that way, hence the state of the world with the minority ruling and having all, the wealthy “elites”.
Management and administration is usually referred to by anarchists as justifiable hierarchy, because pretending management isn’t a form of heirarchy is fringe among anarchists, in my experience. Secondly, states are not used that way in socialist systems.
From my experience designated people share information but they have no authority to make decisions. Also from my experience every state is infected with capitalism.
How do you intend on defending against a NATO invasion without a hierarchically-organised military?
Similarly, how do you intend on resisting NATO espionage and sabotage?
Yet again, “These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves.”
Y’all have had the better part of two centuries to read On Authority, it ain’t even that long. Management without hierarchy jfc, whatever sort of structure you think that entails I can guarantee you’d have called the exact same structure totalitarian or some such childish name when it was actually attempted in a socialist state.
Fantastic essay, even have it in my reading list. Really helps nail down why formalizing groups actually helps with transparency, it’s like casting a spotlight.
This is just idealism, though. Power isn’t a self-driving end, profit is what’s important in capitalism, and is why socialist economies achieve better metrics even with lower resources. What you’re doing right now is “propaganda,” in that you’re trying to convince me (or others) of your views.
It was just called thoughts before governments weaponized it. A government or state, like a corporation, will always act in its own best interest. Which is why they should not exist. We will continue to be inundated with propaganda and divided until they are abolished.
I can’t think of any human structure, or any person, who doesn’t tend to act in their own perceived best interest. The issue is when self interest contradicts mutual interest.
Self-interest is an important concept in understanding why capitalist corporations are consistently antisocial and why most states act against their citizens, but self-interest isn’t a reason in itself.
Government propaganda definitely predates the modern English language. e.g. Roman Empire
Stop trying to manipulate people
You never have anything to say that means anything. My number 1 troll. Cowbee could convince the world of what they believe which is cool. You would come along and ruin it afterwards.
And you treat Cowbee with compete disrespect, wasting his time without actually taking in anything hes saying. Seeing that, why the fuck would not just call you a fuck head.
It’s amazing how you’re incapable of seeing the irony of aggressively pushing your opinion on other people in this thread.
I see it. I just felt the discussion had drifted.
No, propaganda is just the intentional dispertion of information to spread views you align with. Non-government groups do propaganda all the time. Secondly, governments are only extensions of a class, they aren’t an independent entity, and as such are thoroughly enmeshed and dependent on the mode of production.
Whatever you define them as they are hierarchal structures used to secure wealth and resources from the main bulk of the populace. Hierarchies cannot exist in a truly equal system.
Bedtimes are authoritarian
No gods, no broccoli
They aren’t used to secure wealth and resources from the working class, they are extensions of the ruling class in society. In socialism, that’s the working class, and the state oppresses the bourgeoisie and defends from outside attack. There’s also administration, which is a necessary hierarchy even in anarchist systems, as production at a large scale requires managers, just like battlefields need footsoldiers, tacticians, and strategians.
Anarchist systems do not require hierarchy. Even if they require some management that can be easily achieved without creating a hierarchy. This has been fun. Thanks ML Brigade. And they are used that way, hence the state of the world with the minority ruling and having all, the wealthy “elites”.
Management and administration is usually referred to by anarchists as justifiable hierarchy, because pretending management isn’t a form of heirarchy is fringe among anarchists, in my experience. Secondly, states are not used that way in socialist systems.
From my experience designated people share information but they have no authority to make decisions. Also from my experience every state is infected with capitalism.
You’d be wrong on both accounts.
How do you intend on defending against a NATO invasion without a hierarchically-organised military?
Similarly, how do you intend on resisting NATO espionage and sabotage?
They don’t. They are most likely from a NATO or NATO aligned country who prefer being well off at the expense of the third world
Yet again, “These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves.”
Y’all have had the better part of two centuries to read On Authority, it ain’t even that long. Management without hierarchy jfc, whatever sort of structure you think that entails I can guarantee you’d have called the exact same structure totalitarian or some such childish name when it was actually attempted in a socialist state.
https://anarwiki.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania
No hierarchy. None is needed.
No hierarchy. None is needed. https://archive.ph/7ZOvY
Alright, what’s your plan to abolish hierarchies, chief?
Call them by another name, silly
Also, gotta make sure they form implicitly around the most narcissistic individuals without any means of oversight or recall. https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
Fantastic essay, even have it in my reading list. Really helps nail down why formalizing groups actually helps with transparency, it’s like casting a spotlight.
Exactly, if hierarchies are going to end up forming anyways, it’s much better to build them consciously and put in safety mechanisms.