The difference is that for the people dying under capitalism, the system is working as intended, and for the people dying under communism, it is not. In both cases, the leaders don’t really care, because it works for them.
Yep according to them every hunger related death under a communist government is communists fault but the many famines under capitalism don’t count against their favorite system.
Or like the Memorial to Victims of Communism in Canada that was mostly Nazis and collaborators on it.
Failures in communist countries are systemic issues, failures in capitalist countries are individual failures.
Also failure of public works, like a train crash that kills 20 people, means that trains are bad. Clearly this program isn’t working and should be privatized. But 20 people killed daily on the highways, well those people are just idiots. Never mind the structural issues.
This message brought to you by the people who stand to benefit and also, by coincidence, own the newspapers.
There is no such thing as society!
Both are shit
Dumb
People* who talk about the death toll of communism when you bring up 10-20 million dying to poverty caused by capitalism every year.
It’s pretty much a liberal thing.
And a Republican thing. Did you forget about the even larger group of people who believe in capitalism even more? I agree that the hand-winging “oh, maybe we’ll vote in a better president in a few years, let’s wait things out” crowd is a pain, but the sentiment that “capitalism is the best we’ve got” is championed primarily by people even further to the right than them.
Republicans are liberals too, for what it’s worth. When leftists refer to liberals, we don’t exclusively mean those that support the DNC. Either way, though, if liberals ultimately wrap around to supporting capitalism even if they don’t have as strong an attachment to it, they still end up supporting capitalism and desiring its persistence.
Both are true, this is a dumb argument and common bad faith fallacy.
You don’t know what a fallacy is
The death toll from communism comes from the black book of communism which was written by a staunch anti-communist who seeked out to prove communism killed 100 million people which is why it includes nazi deaths and people who weren’t even born as victims of communism.
how is it bad faith?
Lol as if we can’t hate both.
Living up to your username
why? And why count hunger deaths under communism as marks against but don’t apply this to capitalism much more deaths?
A lot of assumptions being made off of my shitty one line joke, starting to feel like you have an agenda you’re trying to push and are attempting to start a fight you’ve already had in your head.
I maybe a dumbass, but I’m not idiot.
Lol as if we can’t hate both.
please explain what a joke is and how this can be understood as one
Nah I’m all good, I’ll leave the interpretation up to y’all.
I wasn’t expecting you to. I’m saying you’re full of shit.
Oh no, a random stranger on the internet is angry with me, what ever will I do…
I have received negative feedback, must be doing something right!
Chickenshit response
Removed by mod
That’s what happens when shitlibs see this, yes.
Ok liberal
This is a conservative talking point… Liberal and communism are left ideals…
Liberals are conservatives who favor nicer marketing.
Liberalism is right-wing, and is explicitly pro-capitalist and anti-communist.
Liberalism is right-wing
I mean, you gotta define your spectrum. If you want to get French with it, the Monarchists are on the right and the Liberals are on the Left. The communists won’t really exist for another fifty years (as a European economic school).
Liberalism only exists “on the right-wing” in the modern era thanks to over a century of Socialist nation building. Even then, the very term is muddled by decades of fascist rebranding - first as Anarcho-Capitalists and then as National Socialists and then as Neo-Conservatives and then as Neo-Liberals and now in a return to White Nationalism - with “liberal” being embraced or rejected in turns as our corporate media needed it to be.
As a case in point, I challenge you to tell me whether liberals are libertarian. In Europe and Asia, they functionally are. In the Americas, they couldn’t be further from it in mainstream politics.
The political spectrum is full of double-speak. “Liberal” is a textbook case. It can mean anything and nothing.
I mean, you gotta define your spectrum.
It’s not a spectrum
If we’re being consistent, it’s an ideology centering private property and capitalism, which puts it on the right in the global context.
it’s an ideology centering private property and capitalism
That’s the economic angle. But it also promises a host of libertarian social reforms included within the free market system. What’s more, liberalism isn’t just an attempt to yank socialists back from their economic progressivism. They’re often efforts to balkinize the power base of local dictatorships and feudal aristocracies.
The original liberals were trying to break up the Old World feudal system, establish economic mobility through cross-border trade, and secularize states that had historically been married to a single branch of a particular religion. All of that was incredibly left-wing from the perspective of the theocrats and monarchists.
Hell, the whole pitch aimed at The Dictatorship of the Proletariat that liberals make is that Socialists/Communists are just Monarchists in disguise. Unipolar parties aren’t really democratic. Centrally planned economies aren’t really communally owned or beneficial. And atheist leaders are just advancing their lack-of-religion as its own kind of faith.
Are these liberals full of shit?
Yes
But the political spectrum is wide, and they’re nowhere near the right-most end of it.
I feel that this is just a consequence of trying to firmly place ideologies on a spectrum beyond whether they affirm capitalism or affirm socialism. I don’t tend to bother trying to compare how right or how left ideologies are, but instead judge the various left and right ideologies on their own propositions, which can’t be easily graphed.
Well liberals today forgot about equality so they can just fuck off
You guys ever think you’re being coaxed by the rich to create all these dividing groups. I sure do.
No, I don’t, because the rich persecute the orgs I work with.
Why don’t you think that? Wouldn’t it make sense that convincing groups to decimate and alienate themselves from the main body would benefit them politically? Or is this just a case of the left going off of vibes hopes and dreams
Liberals don’t help us. They have been in power before and do absolutely nothing.
Liberals aren’t a singular group. What do you do?
Liberals arent a singular group
They are when your definition of a liberal is material rather than aesthetic.
I don’t think the rich are creating communist orgs that accurately explain the problems today just to divide liberals from the left, considering liberalism by nature already supports the system the capitalists profit off of. If anything, your suggestion is going off of vibes, hopes, and dreams.
I didn’t say they were creating them. I am saying they’re targeting groups with more passion than brains
The rich do manipulate liberals into thinking they can get meaningful change through electoralism, but I don’t see what that has to do with leftists.
212·11 hours agoWe’re not creating these, we are using words to describe how things are.
No you’re redrawing lines. It’s the new “walkaway” movement getting ready for the next election. You’re going to poison the votes.
No, lmao. Politics isn’t entirely about elections, stop it with this conspiracy theory nonsense.
“We’re not making up new words, we’re just redefining old ones!”
Dude do you even know what liberal means?
Liberalism is an ideology founded in a few core principles. Capitalism and the right to own property, the power of the government originating from the masses rather than god, and inalienable rights for its citizens.
You guys are the ones redefining old words cause you don’t like the idea of not being considered leftist anymore. The overton window has shifted since the 1700s, yall are centrists now.
Liberal policies aren’t just a singular thing. Because of these groups astro turfing they’re getting the usual gang of idiots to say there is only one group and that is the one that shares a few center right policies.
What do you think astroturfing is? Which groups are these?
We aren’t saying there aren’t different kinds of liberals, what we are trying to tell you is that liberalism is not a left wing ideology anymore. It is centrist and anti-communist. Yes you have left leaning liberals and right leaning. But that still only makes yall center-left and center-right.
Leftists issues with liberals is because liberals, no matter what are pro-capitalist and anti-communist. Communists are anti-property and liberals are pro-property. Yes a leftist has more in common with a left leaning liberal than they do a right leaning liberal, but that does not make their interests aligned. Historically anytime liberals and communists team up, communists get backstabbed. And more often than not, it never even gets to teaming up. Historically, liberals are the ones to team up with authoritarians to crush communists.
And I’m an anarchist. I trust Marxist communists just about as much as I do liberals. That is to say not much. And I have more interests aligned with a Marxist than I do a liberal
No one is redefining words here, though.
you’re being coaxed by the rich to create all these dividing groups
“Bad People tricked you into thinking that way” is such a shit way of engaging anyone politically.
It simultaneously serves to call the audience stupid and insert some nebulous outside agency as the scapegoat for failing to make your own case.
Like, if you want to rally people to all agree you fucking suck, there’s really no better way than to go to every individual group and say “I’m right, its obvious, and you’re just too dumb to notice.”
Didn’t answer what I asked. Being stupid is ignoring a question like this because of ego
And I don’t want to rally people. I’m honestly giving up on the left. I’ve watched them slash tires to protest … Cars. I’ve seen them defend blocking traffic even when we see how counter productive it is when it always produces footage of regular folks and emergency vehicles getting delayed. I’ve watched them Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. I have seen zero effective strategies. But now I’m tired and things I wouldn’t call it I’ll say it now because I’m so fucking done watching people not realize this stuff. It’s walkaway 2.0
I’ve watched the left turn into something that is extremely toxic. There’s no social awareness. If you think what I’m saying is toxic or lacking in social awareness congratulations, that’s the strategy the left uses every single day now. There’s no effort, no consistency day to day other than areas that divide. It’s an ideology about burning bridges and purity tests
There’s no effort, no consistency day to day other than areas that divide. It’s an ideology about burning bridges and purity tests
Lol. Maybe try projecting less hard
Being stupid is ignoring a question
Bro, what?
Told you so
Do you losers actively try to make everyone hate you?
Are you funded by the billionaire elite to defend liberalism? Obviously we divide capitalist ideology from socialist/communist groups
😆 .ml
There’s the issue
you are in an ml com you dumb fucking lib.
“You’re from instance I don’t like” isn’t a particularly strong argument fyi
