• RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      3 hours ago

      Monarchists, far right people etc. would probably react the same. Maybe discounting people on the right who are anti-capitalist but I’m not sure how large of a group that is

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        3 hours ago

        I’ve said it elsewhere, but In my opinion, beyond simply being for progressing onto the next mode of production (at this time socialism) vs remaining on our current or going backward (capitalism, monarchism, etc), I don’t think comparing ideologies by how far they are on this “spectrum” actually makes much sense.

        For example, I don’t think comparing Marxists and anarchists by how “left” we are is a useful metric. Both of them are on the left, but trying to do a comparison outside of the differing propositions and analysis leads into contradictions and absurdities when trying to make it fit onto a clean spectrum. The same goes for the right.

        All that is to say that personally, I use left and right by our present moment, and don’t put too much effort into analyzing how far left or right something may be considered. Liberalism was left during the French Revolution, against the monarchy, but we are several hundred yeard beyond that now and capitalism is dominant, not monarchism. The present divide is socialism vs capitalism, and the few monarchists that exist don’t really have much of an impact on that.

        Make sense? This was kind of a ramble.

        • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          2 hours ago

          I just meant that “liberal” doesn’t cover all the people who would hold the sentiment pictured in the meme. A lot of ardent anti-communists are also against liberalism and can’t be really described as liberal imo.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            2 hours ago

            I think the group that holds those views, ie monarchists, etc, is very, very small and not really relevant. That’s more my point.

            • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 hours ago

              There’s all kinds of authoritarian ideologies that are incompatible with liberalism. Not unfortunately that uncommon, especially nowadays that that shit has had a resurgence

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                1 hour ago

                Liberalism itself, in that it upholds capitalism, is “authoritarian.” Not sure what you’re getting at, ideologies all vary in quantity of holders and historic importance, I see no reason to pretend monarchists are equally as relevant to the right as liberals.

                • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 hour ago

                  Well that’s certainly a take. But I’m not talking about just monarchists, lots of other groups than monarchists that don’t subscribe to ideas of liberalism. It’s just not capitalism = liberalism.

                  And the point was just that this is directed at liberals for some reason when it could be directed at all the groups that do the same thing. That’s all.

    • Signtist@bookwyr.me
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      13 hours ago

      And a Republican thing. Did you forget about the even larger group of people who believe in capitalism even more? I agree that the hand-winging “oh, maybe we’ll vote in a better president in a few years, let’s wait things out” crowd is a pain, but the sentiment that “capitalism is the best we’ve got” is championed primarily by people even further to the right than them.

      • Saymaz@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        4 hours ago

        I have heard that phrase more from the mouth of a “Vote Blue, no matter who” democrat than I have from a conservative. The conservatives on the other hand wanna return to monarchy and feudalism. A bunch of regressionists.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        13 hours ago

        Republicans are liberals too, for what it’s worth. When leftists refer to liberals, we don’t exclusively mean those that support the DNC. Either way, though, if liberals ultimately wrap around to supporting capitalism even if they don’t have as strong an attachment to it, they still end up supporting capitalism and desiring its persistence.