Epstein survivors have confirmed with democrats in congress that they participated in a massive Biden-era investigation into Epstein's co-conspirators, but Trump and Pam Bondi closed it.
Trump incited an insurrection against this country.
Except that was never prosecuted, and there is basically no mechanism specified in the Constitution on how to enforce that amendment. This went through the courts when several states tried to get Trump’s name removed from the ballot. It failed due to a lack of clarity. The only way it could have been enforced, is if he was actually convicted of that charge. That’s what Jack Smith was going after with the J6 charhes against him. That case would have not only disqualified him from ever holding office again…it would have put him in federal prison.
Biden could have black-bagged him as an enemy of the state and been done with it before anyone could render any resistance.
And what would that have looked like to Republicans in Congress, and especially the 30%+ of the population that are a part of Trump’s cult? We’d be in the middle of a civil war right now, with Democrats playing the role of autocratic dictators, instead of Trump.
Regardless, if it was found to be illegal later Biden is old as fuck so he wouldn’t have to live with the consequences anyway.
Except you can’t unfire that bullet. And once that line has been crossed, there would be no functional rule of law left in the country. If Democrats embrace the same scale of lawlessness that Trump and Republicans are trying to achieve, then there’s nothing left to fight for. They would be shredding the Constitution the same way Trump is.
They need to plug those loopholes, not exploit them for their own benefit. That’s how we got here in the first place. You can’t exactly claim Trump shouldn’t be allowed to do all this, while also claiming Democrats should. Laws for thee, but not for me, is the problem…not the solution.
Don’t care. They’re not prosecuting all the people they’re deporting now either.
And what would that have looked like to Republicans in Congress, and especially the 30%+ of the population that are a part of Trump’s cult? We’d be in the middle of a civil war right now, with Democrats playing the role of autocratic dictators, instead of Trump.
So now we’re dealing with Trump as an autocratic dicatator and he’s not going to give it up without force. If it was going to happen either way better to kick things off while the Dems have the reigns than after everything’s been handed over to him.
Except you can’t unfire that bullet. And once that line has been crossed, there would be no functional rule of law left in the country.
Not being able to unfire the bullet is the point. Afterwards the rest of the Dems could have turned on him and plugged the holes that allowed the autocracy, presumably with the support of the remaining republicans who agree that this was not a good thing to have happen. Again we’re dealing with it now either way and the Dems are too soft to stop anything that’s happening. Whining about it in court and on twitter doesn’t fucking unfuck all the lives being ruined by Trumps administration.
Don’t care. They’re not prosecuting all the people they’re deporting now either.
So, you agree that they shouldn’t have to, then? I mean, you seem fine with the idea that due process can be suspended anytime you want…right?
If the only difference between having those rights, and having them taken away, is so arbitrary…then anyone in office can and will take yours from you, anytime they want. The point is to NOT have that as an option…not to normalize its use.
So now we’re dealing with Trump as an autocratic dictator and he’s not going to give it up without force. If it was going to happen either way better to kick things off while the Dems have the reigns than after everything’s been handed over to him.
Again, why would you want to have autocratic dictators, at all? The point is not to have them…not to normalize them.
The problem with your logic, is that you think throwing away due process, is somehow going to fix this. It isn’t. That’s Trump’s solution for what he sees as “the problem with the country”. His logic is that they shouldn’t have to respect people’s rights. He should be able to simply declare you illegal, and throw you in jail or deport you, instantly. He is wrong. That should never be allowed.
If anything, we need to reinforce that process and make sure it can’t be abused like this again. The last thing we should be doing, though…is following in Trump’s footsteps. All that does is legitimize what he’s been doing.
I’m not saying use it anytime. I’m saying Biden should have used it to eliminate Trump and his followers as an existential threat to our nation that were going to use those same loopholes to seize power as soon as he was back in office. There was no option besides an autocrat. He had to do it or Trump would (and did). If Biden had done it then afterwards he could have worked with congress to fix those holes and put safeguards in place so that the threat cannot reoccur in the future. Or if everyone was too pissed thrown himself on his sword and have the next guy work with congress to fix things. There was no way forward for him to beat Trump legally. He barely got him prosecuted for election fraud and it didn’t even make it to sentencing.
The problem with your logic, is that you think throwing away due process, is somehow going to fix this. It isn’t. That’s Trump’s solution for what he sees as “the problem with the country”. His logic is that they shouldn’t have to respect people’s rights. He should be able to simply declare you illegal, and throw you in jail or deport you, instantly. He is wrong. That should never be allowed.
Not sure how that is a problem with my logic when Trump is literally doing all these things because he was not stopped. My point is already proven by reality. Were your and Biden’s principles worth all the lives that are going to be destroyed by him?
I’m not saying use it anytime. I’m saying Biden should have used it to eliminate Trump and his followers as an existential threat to our nation
Ok, so there’s a lot wrong with this line of thinking.
First of all, it’s literally the same argument that Trump and his followers are using to justify him doing all the stuff you think Democrats should have done to stop him from doing all the stuff you think is bad. It’s the worst kind.of logical fallacy. You are advocating for the same thing you are saying is a problem.
And how exactly would you “eliminate Trump’s followers”? By suspending their Constitutional rights, as well? How many millions of people would you have to throw in jail for thought crimes, before that “existential threat to our nation” was “eliminated”? How would you silence them, when they correctly point out that you are the problem now? Would you suspend the Constitution in order to shut them up…or just kill them, and be done with it?
Not sure how that is a problem with my logic when Trump is literally doing all these things because he was not stopped.
Imagine we’re all heading for a cliff, and you know that Trump wants to drive the bus straight off that cliff. How does letting Democrats drive off that cliff first, stop the bus from going over?
First of all, it’s literally the same argument that Trump and his followers are using to justify him doing all the stuff you think Democrats should have done to stop him from doing all the stuff you think is bad. It’s the worst kind.of logical fallacy. You are advocating for the same thing you are saying is a problem.
It’s not the same at all. Were Trump and his followers not completely throwing the rulebook out the window I would not be advocating for it. They created the situation and it had to be dealt with. They couldn’t be dealt with lawfully because they were ignoring the laws. As proven by the fact that NOT dealing with it resulted in our country being overthrown by fascists.
And how exactly would you “eliminate Trump’s followers”? By suspending their Constitutional rights, as well? How many millions of people would you have to throw in jail for thought crimes, before that “existential threat to our nation” was “eliminated”? How would you silence them, when they correctly point out that you are the problem now? Would you suspend the Constitution in order to shut them up…or just kill them, and be done with it?
As many as it took to stop the bleeding. At the very least Trump and anyone directly supporting his efforts. They were already not abiding by the constitution so why should it protect them? You can’t play chess when the other side is playing calvinball.
Imagine we’re all heading for a cliff, and you know that Trump wants to drive the bus straight off that cliff. How does letting Democrats drive off that cliff first, stop the bus from going over?
That’s not a good analogy. There is no option to stay on the road in this scenario, things are already too far gone. Best outcome would have been Biden seizing the wheel and steering us into the ditch on the other side of the road instead.
Sorry, my friend. But you can’t fight fascism, with fascism. The analogy I used is perfect for the argument you’re making, seeing as how you seem quite willing to drive the bus off a cliff just to stop Trump from doing it first. It makes zero sense.
What do you propose Biden should have done then? What is the proper strategy he should have used to prevent Trump from getting back into power and throwing the nation to the dogs? Because what he did, failed, and now we’re all fucked. Is that preferable to a Biden autocracy?
Biden shouldn’t have done anything. His Attorney General should have been less sensitive about appearing biased, and started pursuing Trump’s prosecution earlier. The entire time the J6 committee was doing its investigation in the Senate…a special prosecutor like Jack Smith, should have been riding along, compiling evidence for an indictment. The instant the committee released its final report, that special prosecutor should have taken over the investigation and presented its evidence to a grand jury, as soon as possible.
That would have given them an extra year to prosecute Trump in court. They were literally weeks away from putting him on trial, as it was. That extra year would have at least guaranteed his disqualification and most likely would have resulted in real prison time.
But Merrick Garland blinked. He dragged his feet before assigning a special prosecutor to continue what the Senate committee had started. That was what they should have done differently. Biden should have had nothing to do with it. It’s the only way to make sure it was a legitimate trial. Any hint that Biden was involved, would have tainted the results and MAGA would have never accepted the outcome.
It wouldn’t even have mattered if some of them still didn’t accept it. Enough of them would, that the movement would have been crippled. And any serious lawmaker in a position of authority would have an almost impossible time explaining away those results, without also discrediting themselves in the process.
Nobody actually cares what the crackpots have to say about the 2020 election results, because there is literally no evidence to back up those claims. It would be the same thing if all the evidence proved that Trump was guilty of trying to commit a coup. We could all safely dismiss all of his remaining supporters as irrelevant, and move on. The sane ones would let it go, and the ones that couldn’t would sound insane.
Except that was never prosecuted, and there is basically no mechanism specified in the Constitution on how to enforce that amendment. This went through the courts when several states tried to get Trump’s name removed from the ballot. It failed due to a lack of clarity. The only way it could have been enforced, is if he was actually convicted of that charge. That’s what Jack Smith was going after with the J6 charhes against him. That case would have not only disqualified him from ever holding office again…it would have put him in federal prison.
And what would that have looked like to Republicans in Congress, and especially the 30%+ of the population that are a part of Trump’s cult? We’d be in the middle of a civil war right now, with Democrats playing the role of autocratic dictators, instead of Trump.
Except you can’t unfire that bullet. And once that line has been crossed, there would be no functional rule of law left in the country. If Democrats embrace the same scale of lawlessness that Trump and Republicans are trying to achieve, then there’s nothing left to fight for. They would be shredding the Constitution the same way Trump is.
They need to plug those loopholes, not exploit them for their own benefit. That’s how we got here in the first place. You can’t exactly claim Trump shouldn’t be allowed to do all this, while also claiming Democrats should. Laws for thee, but not for me, is the problem…not the solution.
Don’t care. They’re not prosecuting all the people they’re deporting now either.
So now we’re dealing with Trump as an autocratic dicatator and he’s not going to give it up without force. If it was going to happen either way better to kick things off while the Dems have the reigns than after everything’s been handed over to him.
Not being able to unfire the bullet is the point. Afterwards the rest of the Dems could have turned on him and plugged the holes that allowed the autocracy, presumably with the support of the remaining republicans who agree that this was not a good thing to have happen. Again we’re dealing with it now either way and the Dems are too soft to stop anything that’s happening. Whining about it in court and on twitter doesn’t fucking unfuck all the lives being ruined by Trumps administration.
So, you agree that they shouldn’t have to, then? I mean, you seem fine with the idea that due process can be suspended anytime you want…right?
If the only difference between having those rights, and having them taken away, is so arbitrary…then anyone in office can and will take yours from you, anytime they want. The point is to NOT have that as an option…not to normalize its use.
Again, why would you want to have autocratic dictators, at all? The point is not to have them…not to normalize them.
The problem with your logic, is that you think throwing away due process, is somehow going to fix this. It isn’t. That’s Trump’s solution for what he sees as “the problem with the country”. His logic is that they shouldn’t have to respect people’s rights. He should be able to simply declare you illegal, and throw you in jail or deport you, instantly. He is wrong. That should never be allowed.
If anything, we need to reinforce that process and make sure it can’t be abused like this again. The last thing we should be doing, though…is following in Trump’s footsteps. All that does is legitimize what he’s been doing.
I’m not saying use it anytime. I’m saying Biden should have used it to eliminate Trump and his followers as an existential threat to our nation that were going to use those same loopholes to seize power as soon as he was back in office. There was no option besides an autocrat. He had to do it or Trump would (and did). If Biden had done it then afterwards he could have worked with congress to fix those holes and put safeguards in place so that the threat cannot reoccur in the future. Or if everyone was too pissed thrown himself on his sword and have the next guy work with congress to fix things. There was no way forward for him to beat Trump legally. He barely got him prosecuted for election fraud and it didn’t even make it to sentencing.
Not sure how that is a problem with my logic when Trump is literally doing all these things because he was not stopped. My point is already proven by reality. Were your and Biden’s principles worth all the lives that are going to be destroyed by him?
Ok, so there’s a lot wrong with this line of thinking.
First of all, it’s literally the same argument that Trump and his followers are using to justify him doing all the stuff you think Democrats should have done to stop him from doing all the stuff you think is bad. It’s the worst kind.of logical fallacy. You are advocating for the same thing you are saying is a problem.
And how exactly would you “eliminate Trump’s followers”? By suspending their Constitutional rights, as well? How many millions of people would you have to throw in jail for thought crimes, before that “existential threat to our nation” was “eliminated”? How would you silence them, when they correctly point out that you are the problem now? Would you suspend the Constitution in order to shut them up…or just kill them, and be done with it?
Imagine we’re all heading for a cliff, and you know that Trump wants to drive the bus straight off that cliff. How does letting Democrats drive off that cliff first, stop the bus from going over?
It’s not the same at all. Were Trump and his followers not completely throwing the rulebook out the window I would not be advocating for it. They created the situation and it had to be dealt with. They couldn’t be dealt with lawfully because they were ignoring the laws. As proven by the fact that NOT dealing with it resulted in our country being overthrown by fascists.
As many as it took to stop the bleeding. At the very least Trump and anyone directly supporting his efforts. They were already not abiding by the constitution so why should it protect them? You can’t play chess when the other side is playing calvinball.
That’s not a good analogy. There is no option to stay on the road in this scenario, things are already too far gone. Best outcome would have been Biden seizing the wheel and steering us into the ditch on the other side of the road instead.
Sorry, my friend. But you can’t fight fascism, with fascism. The analogy I used is perfect for the argument you’re making, seeing as how you seem quite willing to drive the bus off a cliff just to stop Trump from doing it first. It makes zero sense.
What do you propose Biden should have done then? What is the proper strategy he should have used to prevent Trump from getting back into power and throwing the nation to the dogs? Because what he did, failed, and now we’re all fucked. Is that preferable to a Biden autocracy?
Biden shouldn’t have done anything. His Attorney General should have been less sensitive about appearing biased, and started pursuing Trump’s prosecution earlier. The entire time the J6 committee was doing its investigation in the Senate…a special prosecutor like Jack Smith, should have been riding along, compiling evidence for an indictment. The instant the committee released its final report, that special prosecutor should have taken over the investigation and presented its evidence to a grand jury, as soon as possible.
That would have given them an extra year to prosecute Trump in court. They were literally weeks away from putting him on trial, as it was. That extra year would have at least guaranteed his disqualification and most likely would have resulted in real prison time.
But Merrick Garland blinked. He dragged his feet before assigning a special prosecutor to continue what the Senate committee had started. That was what they should have done differently. Biden should have had nothing to do with it. It’s the only way to make sure it was a legitimate trial. Any hint that Biden was involved, would have tainted the results and MAGA would have never accepted the outcome.
It wouldn’t even have mattered if some of them still didn’t accept it. Enough of them would, that the movement would have been crippled. And any serious lawmaker in a position of authority would have an almost impossible time explaining away those results, without also discrediting themselves in the process.
Nobody actually cares what the crackpots have to say about the 2020 election results, because there is literally no evidence to back up those claims. It would be the same thing if all the evidence proved that Trump was guilty of trying to commit a coup. We could all safely dismiss all of his remaining supporters as irrelevant, and move on. The sane ones would let it go, and the ones that couldn’t would sound insane.