Dbzero Governance Vote Post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728

Ahoy mateys!

A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.

But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. …

More context

Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.

As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again. …

Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.

In the end the Post had around 70% of support by dbzer0 users, who in the comments also called for defederation.

Here is a Link to Dbzer0 instances tab https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances where if you go to blocked instances you can see fedddit.org is now defederated

i dont think feddit has made a post now, but when they do i will add it

  • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldEnglish
    175·
    19 hours ago

    “In Germany after National Socialism we have all been brainwashed to support genocide and Zioism and have to legally support our government sending weapons to a genocide because we like the previous one so much. Also we have a Gestapo which enforces this just like how we did in WW2”.

    I’m basically sure I’ll be condemned as a zionist now, or whatever, go ahead.

    Literally putting on the classic Nazi disclaimer

    Can you explain why Germans have learned absolutely nothing from the Holocaust?

    • LeninWeave [any]@lemmy.mlEnglish
      124·
      17 hours ago

      Can you explain why Germans have learned absolutely nothing from the Holocaust?

      America and Western Europe were more interested in fighting the cold war, so they rehabilitated most of the nazis and put them in charge of everything.

      In 1957, 77% of the [West German Justice Ministry’s] senior officials were former Nazis, which, according to the study, was a higher proportion that during Hitler’s Third Reich government, which existed from 1933 to 1945.

      This is only one small example, the practice was widespread in West German as well as NATO generally.

      That report also found that 14% of workers in the East German Interior Ministry were former Nazis — a surprising finding, considering the communist government’s purportedly rigorous effort to rid itself of former Nazis.

      Notice the extreme difference here, between 77% and 14%. Even if East Germany’s de-nazification was probably not as thorough as it could and should have been due to practical concerns, it was still nothing like in the West. I’m saying this because I fully expect the “both sides did it” deflection from westerners (which is what the linked article is obviously trying to do in this quote). Notice also “senior officials” vs. “workers”.

    • Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      74·
      17 hours ago

      I don’t disagree with your assessment that some kind of propaganda in support of zionism and maybe even genocide is happening. But if you really see support of genocide and zionism in what I personally just said, I really don’t know what I could say to convince you. It seems you’re not truly listening to me and trying to understand. I can just hope eventually you will see that there is no point to us fighting, and I wish you well.

      Edit: and to say “Germans have learned literally nothing from the Holocaust” is just ridiculous. You’re using false hyperbole to make Germans in general (who have very diverse political opinions individually!) seem like literal evil, and that simply helps no one except the ones that want us to fight.

      • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        13 hours ago

        The German government is sending 30% the weapons to mass murder Palestinians in a concentration camp. This denial of full German government support for genocide is why nobody takes Germans seriously when they claim to care about the Holocaust. Take a long hard look at this image and see what you can take away from it

      • LeninWeave [any]@lemmy.mlEnglish
        66·
        17 hours ago

        If you really see support of genocide and zionism in what I said, I really don’t know what I could say to convince you. It seems you’re not truly listening to me and trying to understand.

        Oh no, people are not trying to understand your subtle and nuanced argument of “Palestinian genocide and the Holocaust are different because the Jews never fought back”.

        • Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          45·
          16 hours ago

          You are trying to reduce my argument to one dimension that “sounds” reasonable, while ignoring things like it literally being in the charter of Hamas to destroy all Jewish people in Israel. And you’re going to say it is the prerogative of Palestinians to fight back, and again I would completely agree with you. It just doesn’t make much sense to argue with you, so I’m going to stop.

          • agentant (He/Him)@lemmy.mlEnglish
            61·
            13 hours ago

            You mean the outdated charter that has since been replaced to clarify opposition to the settler colonial state, rather than Jews as a whole?

            • Alaknár@sopuli.xyzEnglish
              13·
              10 hours ago

              Oh, yeah, that’s so much better. “We will keep fighting until we eliminate a country” is such a peaceful and lovable sentiment!

              • agentant (He/Him)@lemmy.mlEnglish
                5·
                10 hours ago

                You mean the colony established over the legitimate Palestinian State? This is like saying it’s bad to fight for the abolition of the Reichskommissariats.

                • Alaknár@sopuli.xyzEnglish
                  1·
                  3 hours ago

                  You mean the colony established over the legitimate Palestinian State?

                  1. Palestinian State didn’t exist before the very same resolution that created Israel. It was the Palestinian Region of the Ottoman Empire. It’s like calling people living in the Alps “Alpians” and stating that “the French and the Swiss colonised the legitimate Alpian State”.
                  2. Israelites, just like Palestinians, have a historical claim to that territory. If you firmly believe that they should not have any part of it - where would you place them?
                  • agentant (He/Him)@lemmy.mlEnglish
                    2·
                    2 hours ago

                    The Palestinian people are a people who have lived in that region for hundreds of years, just because they were previously occupied by Ottomans doesn’t mean there’s no material basis for the nation of Palestine being present in the region. The Jews like the Roma are a stateless nation and we do not need a state. Further, Jews have remained present in Palestine and have peacefully coexisted with them, there’s no reason to believe they wouldn’t be represented under a Palestinian state. Palestinians themselves, were decedents of the Ancient Israelites who converted to Islam. Aggression between the two groups only started when a genocidal settler colony began using our name, the Jewish People, to justify their actions.

                • LeninWeave [any]@lemmy.mlEnglish
                  21·
                  3 hours ago

                  This is like saying it’s bad to fight for the abolition of the Reichskommissariats.

                  They’re a genocide defender from a Finnish instance, they might actually think that.

                  • Alaknár@sopuli.xyzEnglish
                    1·
                    3 hours ago

                    I love how you guys call me a “genocide defender” after I’ve stated so many times that Netanyahu and everybody responsible for the genocide should be tried and eliminated. :D

                    You’re exactly like MAGA - a fundamentalist who believes that if someone isn’t 100% committed to ALL tenets of your cause, they’re a traitor and an enemy. This tribalism is pathetic and a cancer on our society.

          • DiscoAssBlazer@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            72·
            15 hours ago

            it literally being in the charter of Hamas to destroy all Jewish people in Israel

            The one you are referring to is the 1988 one written 50 years ago that immediately became irrelevant just a few years after it was written. It was and has been irrelevant since basically the beginning

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hamas_charter

            While the 1988 Hamas Charter had been widely criticized for its antisemitism, the 2017 document removed the antisemitic language and stated that Hamas’ fight was not with Jews as such because of their religion but with the "Zionist project."When asked, Hamas leaders explained that “The original charter has now become a historical document and part of an earlier stage in our evolution. It will remain in the movement’s bookshelf as a record of our past.”

            edit: if it’s not clear, my tone isn’t meant to be debate or assholeish but genuine correction on that point, i just noticed that specific part from this thread and wanted to correct the record

          • LeninWeave [any]@lemmy.mlEnglish
            84·
            16 hours ago

            You are trying to reduce my argument to one dimension that “sounds” reasonable, while ignoring things like it literally being in the charter of Hamas to destroy all Jewish people in Israel.

            How surprising, you’re doing Hasbara. The charter was irrelevant soon after it was written, Hamas changed many times very quickly throughout its history, and the charter you’re referring to was in fact literally replaced with a new one in 2017. You are a zionist.

            And you’re going to say it is the prerogative of Palestinians to fight back, and again I would completely agree with you.

            No, you wouldn’t and you didn’t. The trick of “fighting back is their right but they’re doing it wrong” isn’t fooling anyone.