The democrats weak statements would have been better than trump’s encouragement of genocide. They might have pushed back more as Ireal got worse and worse, and sentiment changed in the U.S. There are only two possibilities in U.S. elections, if you don’t pick the better one, you are responsible when the worse one wins. If the democrats won with a stable base, they could afford to move further left. They have to court the center right because there are too many idiotic ‘left’ minded Americans who don’t understand simple logic.
lol, you’re very sweet. When have the democrats moved left while in power (want to compare the new deal lol)? When have they pushed back on Israel? I wish you the best with your wishing that giving the democrats what they want will make them change for the better.
They are chasing donors right, not votes. That’s very well established, they get more votes when they move left.
Are the democrats not responsible for the genocide in Palestine? For providing the bombs and bullets that slaughter Palestinians? Does their responsibility not dwarf the responsibility of us on the left? And if not…how could they possibly be so stupid as to not do exactly as we wish, given how powerful we are? By the logic of “you’re responsible for the world as you find it and cannot wish for anyone to change, particularly if they’re more powerful than you” it is still their fault if we are so powerful, no? And why, in your mind, do they get to be unchangingly uncompromisingly pro genocide, but little old me, I must compromise my ludicrous anti genocide position?
Pre 2024, it wouldn’t be accurate at all to call Israel as a whole genocidal. Yes there were right wing politicians and fringe groups saying horrible things, and actions in Gaza an wb were terrible. But not genocide. So democrats didn’t have the chance to support genocidal Israel.
But this is all immaterial. The Democrats are clearly less bad than the trump for the people of Palestine, and on every other issue. So by not voting for them you effectively are making things worse for the people of Palestine. If you think you’re helping the long game, whatever. But understand that you are killing more Palestinians right now.
It’s been a genocide (in the sense of the word human beings use; an attempt to eradicate a people) since the beginning. But maybe it wasn’t legally a genocide before 2023 because we didn’t have evidence for it. So let’s just replace it with apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and extermination…I mean those are just the facts. So I guess I should be more clear and factual, and using the word “genocide” is too inflammatory…but maybe you can forgive me for shortening apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and extermination to genocide as a shorthand. Post October 7 saw an acceleration of the existing process of destruction of the palestinian people. If you’re not aware of how horrifying things were in palestine before 2023 and would like me to discuss that I’m happy to.
I absolutely disagree that there’s any meaningful difference between the democrats and the republicans in respect to their support for the genocide of palestinians. Biden gave Israel at least 18 billion more than trump did.
I don’t understand what you mean by I am killing them. Surely it’s the IDF, the state of Israel, and the republicans doing that. It’s also the democrats because by agreeing to arm a genocide they’re leaving Israel confident that their funding isn’t going anywhere. This comparative blame game is so silly. You know what, let’s say that the republicans really are 1% worse, sure. I will take it on the chin that I’m partially responsible for that increased level of slaughter if you think you would have taken responsibility for the 99% that would have been slaughtered had Kamala Harris won. Or…do you think it’s 5%? Whatever you think is reasonable.
Or am I responsible for the difference between this world and every world I fail to help create?
Ina democracy you are responsible for your vote. If there are two choices and you don’t pick the one that is even 0.1% better you are helping the worse one, and that is your fault. The repercussions are on you. It’s simple logic. There’s no benifit is not voting for the better option. You don’t have to vote for a candidate- you can vote against the other. You don’t help anything by not voting.
There’s nothing magical that happens if you don’t vote. The candidate with the most vote wins. Thats it. If A is better than B, you should vote A. Even if there are major problems with A. Otherwise we get B, which is worse. Worse is bad.
That analogy doesn’t apply at all. Not voting is a decision that doesn’t help elect the better candidate, therefore you are responsible for helping the worse candidate.
The democrats weak statements would have been better than trump’s encouragement of genocide. They might have pushed back more as Ireal got worse and worse, and sentiment changed in the U.S. There are only two possibilities in U.S. elections, if you don’t pick the better one, you are responsible when the worse one wins. If the democrats won with a stable base, they could afford to move further left. They have to court the center right because there are too many idiotic ‘left’ minded Americans who don’t understand simple logic.
lol, you’re very sweet. When have the democrats moved left while in power (want to compare the new deal lol)? When have they pushed back on Israel? I wish you the best with your wishing that giving the democrats what they want will make them change for the better.
They are chasing donors right, not votes. That’s very well established, they get more votes when they move left.
Are the democrats not responsible for the genocide in Palestine? For providing the bombs and bullets that slaughter Palestinians? Does their responsibility not dwarf the responsibility of us on the left? And if not…how could they possibly be so stupid as to not do exactly as we wish, given how powerful we are? By the logic of “you’re responsible for the world as you find it and cannot wish for anyone to change, particularly if they’re more powerful than you” it is still their fault if we are so powerful, no? And why, in your mind, do they get to be unchangingly uncompromisingly pro genocide, but little old me, I must compromise my ludicrous anti genocide position?
Pre 2024, it wouldn’t be accurate at all to call Israel as a whole genocidal. Yes there were right wing politicians and fringe groups saying horrible things, and actions in Gaza an wb were terrible. But not genocide. So democrats didn’t have the chance to support genocidal Israel.
But this is all immaterial. The Democrats are clearly less bad than the trump for the people of Palestine, and on every other issue. So by not voting for them you effectively are making things worse for the people of Palestine. If you think you’re helping the long game, whatever. But understand that you are killing more Palestinians right now.
It’s been a genocide (in the sense of the word human beings use; an attempt to eradicate a people) since the beginning. But maybe it wasn’t legally a genocide before 2023 because we didn’t have evidence for it. So let’s just replace it with apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and extermination…I mean those are just the facts. So I guess I should be more clear and factual, and using the word “genocide” is too inflammatory…but maybe you can forgive me for shortening apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and extermination to genocide as a shorthand. Post October 7 saw an acceleration of the existing process of destruction of the palestinian people. If you’re not aware of how horrifying things were in palestine before 2023 and would like me to discuss that I’m happy to.
I absolutely disagree that there’s any meaningful difference between the democrats and the republicans in respect to their support for the genocide of palestinians. Biden gave Israel at least 18 billion more than trump did.
I don’t understand what you mean by I am killing them. Surely it’s the IDF, the state of Israel, and the republicans doing that. It’s also the democrats because by agreeing to arm a genocide they’re leaving Israel confident that their funding isn’t going anywhere. This comparative blame game is so silly. You know what, let’s say that the republicans really are 1% worse, sure. I will take it on the chin that I’m partially responsible for that increased level of slaughter if you think you would have taken responsibility for the 99% that would have been slaughtered had Kamala Harris won. Or…do you think it’s 5%? Whatever you think is reasonable.
Or am I responsible for the difference between this world and every world I fail to help create?
Ina democracy you are responsible for your vote. If there are two choices and you don’t pick the one that is even 0.1% better you are helping the worse one, and that is your fault. The repercussions are on you. It’s simple logic. There’s no benifit is not voting for the better option. You don’t have to vote for a candidate- you can vote against the other. You don’t help anything by not voting.
I’ll stick with my answer on your other comment. I think these threads have gotten back to the same place.
voting for a fascist is not good.
There’s nothing magical that happens if you don’t vote. The candidate with the most vote wins. Thats it. If A is better than B, you should vote A. Even if there are major problems with A. Otherwise we get B, which is worse. Worse is bad.
if I don’t drive a car, I cannot be responsible for that car running over someone.
That analogy doesn’t apply at all. Not voting is a decision that doesn’t help elect the better candidate, therefore you are responsible for helping the worse candidate.