Sometimes the “offense” that guys feel over guys wearing skirts and stuff is definitely from closeted thoughts or outright self-hate, but that’s not necessarily the case. The underlying issue is they view clothing as gendered in the first place.
Style shouldn’t be associated with sexual attraction implicitly, but it does for stupid people, and many people are stupid. Especially horny guys thinking with the wrong head.
The mere presence of a particular article turns them on, and they project that to intent. It is entirely subjective if they get upset at popping a boner, or upset that a male would use clothing that traditionally makes a female sexy. It requires the dumb person to view another’s clothing choice as a direct expression to them, but stupid people taking things personally that aren’t personal should be preeeetty easy to understand!
It’s a lesser mindset, male-focused version of, “what was she wearing?” after an SA event. Just because I’m trying to look pretty and you like some part of that, I am still most definitely not coming on to you by wearing it.
Just commented a couple of times on my kilts being a visible turn off to the women I’ve dated. I’m a small man, not afraid of girl clothes, but that wasn’t hitting with 'em.
Before you go banging on people for “lesser mindsets” and such, consider this; Attraction is not a choice.
Let me day that again for those in the back; Attraction is not a choice.
I think we might be agreeing, but let’s not put people down for their attractions.
We definitely shouldn’t be putting down people for their attractions, but I think there is value in highlighting that a person’s concept of attractiveness can be socially constructed and therefore can also be deconstructed.
I think instead of labelling people with narrow or socio-centric concepts of attraction as “lesser” or stupid or uninformed isn’t fair, but I also think it’s fair to say that they likely haven’t gone through the process of deconstructing why they feel the way they do.
Except for the interesting intellectual exercise, why deconstruct it? Again, attraction is not a choice. If a man in a kilt turns a woman off? So be it. It’s not like emotions can be fought with logic.
All worth discussing and thinking about, but in the end deconstruction of attraction won’t win anyone over.
Because it’s valuable to deconstruct any concept that is held without a clear reason. It’s far more important to know why you believe or feel what you do than just knowing what you feel or believe.
I’m not expecting to convince people of my position, nor to have others change their positions based upon said deconstruction, but it’s worth raising nonetheless.
If attraction can be socially programmed (as it so very obviously is), then it can similarly be deconstructed. The first step to achieving that is questioning the motivation for attraction beyond “that’s hot”.
It constantly astounds me that people somehow do not understand the concept of introspection.
The “why” is more important than the “what”. Always. Killing a man is cold blooded murder in one context, and saving your entire family in another. Thoughts are the same. If you don’t know why you are correct, you are far less likely to be correct on a less obvious question.
I swear, these are the people that hear a Trolley Problem and only start asking questions to see if they can get you to agree with killing more than the other track…
Attraction is not a choice, but if your reaction to cognitive dissonance is to get angry at someone wearing clothing, that is a YOU problem.
Yes, lots of people have problems with this. That does not make it acceptable. Again, attraction is not a choice, but you do not have to hump their leg.
I hear those excuses all the time from rapists. “I was attracted!”, “look what she was wearing!” Know what you defend when you say people cannot control their attraction: That’s EXACTLY what a lot of rapists say.
People SHOULD be able to control their attraction, at least enough to be a civil person. Being a rude piece of shit over clothing is very much ALSO not being a civil person. Things don’t have to get violent for them to still be wrong.
I think you hit the nail on the head. It is very interesting how different I (male-presenting) get treated when I wear a skirt vs trousers. The whole rest of my outfit and appearance is similar - I have the same haircut, glasses, coat, boots, backpack. But when I wear a skirt, I know that people notice me far more, and I also for some reason start getting compliments from women.
So I dont think that’s something which only happens with men noticing women, but that skirts (especially yhe ones which are shorter and more fitting) society at large seems to associate with sexual attraction. I will be honest, it is a bit of fun to know I have so much power over peoples attention - that I can control the amount of attention on me by wearing pants vs a skirt. But I also fully agree with what you’re saying - people can wear skirts just because they like them, not because they want to be sexy to you (shocker moment).
I know that we subconciously do it all the time, but: how do you deal with the fact that people treat you differently just based on what you’re wearing?
At least to more directly answer your question: I absolutely despise gendered style. You’d imagine access to the loins would be universal, but noooo, of course the more common target of desire gets the short end of the stick…
Humans are still disgustingly simple beings. That’s genuinely how I feel about your question.
Your take on it seems likely in other cases, and/or some combo of both.
That said, I would much rather a man with an erection look at me like on the right than like on the left, which was a bit more where my joke was coming from.
Sometimes the “offense” that guys feel over guys wearing skirts and stuff is definitely from closeted thoughts or outright self-hate, but that’s not necessarily the case. The underlying issue is they view clothing as gendered in the first place.
Style shouldn’t be associated with sexual attraction implicitly, but it does for stupid people, and many people are stupid. Especially horny guys thinking with the wrong head.
The mere presence of a particular article turns them on, and they project that to intent. It is entirely subjective if they get upset at popping a boner, or upset that a male would use clothing that traditionally makes a female sexy. It requires the dumb person to view another’s clothing choice as a direct expression to them, but stupid people taking things personally that aren’t personal should be preeeetty easy to understand!
It’s a lesser mindset, male-focused version of, “what was she wearing?” after an SA event. Just because I’m trying to look pretty and you like some part of that, I am still most definitely not coming on to you by wearing it.
Just commented a couple of times on my kilts being a visible turn off to the women I’ve dated. I’m a small man, not afraid of girl clothes, but that wasn’t hitting with 'em.
Before you go banging on people for “lesser mindsets” and such, consider this; Attraction is not a choice.
Let me day that again for those in the back; Attraction is not a choice.
I think we might be agreeing, but let’s not put people down for their attractions.
We definitely shouldn’t be putting down people for their attractions, but I think there is value in highlighting that a person’s concept of attractiveness can be socially constructed and therefore can also be deconstructed.
I think instead of labelling people with narrow or socio-centric concepts of attraction as “lesser” or stupid or uninformed isn’t fair, but I also think it’s fair to say that they likely haven’t gone through the process of deconstructing why they feel the way they do.
Except for the interesting intellectual exercise, why deconstruct it? Again, attraction is not a choice. If a man in a kilt turns a woman off? So be it. It’s not like emotions can be fought with logic.
All worth discussing and thinking about, but in the end deconstruction of attraction won’t win anyone over.
Because it’s valuable to deconstruct any concept that is held without a clear reason. It’s far more important to know why you believe or feel what you do than just knowing what you feel or believe.
I’m not expecting to convince people of my position, nor to have others change their positions based upon said deconstruction, but it’s worth raising nonetheless.
If attraction can be socially programmed (as it so very obviously is), then it can similarly be deconstructed. The first step to achieving that is questioning the motivation for attraction beyond “that’s hot”.
It constantly astounds me that people somehow do not understand the concept of introspection.
The “why” is more important than the “what”. Always. Killing a man is cold blooded murder in one context, and saving your entire family in another. Thoughts are the same. If you don’t know why you are correct, you are far less likely to be correct on a less obvious question.
I swear, these are the people that hear a Trolley Problem and only start asking questions to see if they can get you to agree with killing more than the other track…
Attraction is not a choice, but if your reaction to cognitive dissonance is to get angry at someone wearing clothing, that is a YOU problem.
Yes, lots of people have problems with this. That does not make it acceptable. Again, attraction is not a choice, but you do not have to hump their leg.
I hear those excuses all the time from rapists. “I was attracted!”, “look what she was wearing!” Know what you defend when you say people cannot control their attraction: That’s EXACTLY what a lot of rapists say.
People SHOULD be able to control their attraction, at least enough to be a civil person. Being a rude piece of shit over clothing is very much ALSO not being a civil person. Things don’t have to get violent for them to still be wrong.
I never really considered this perspective and really appreciate you sharing it, thank you!
I think you hit the nail on the head. It is very interesting how different I (male-presenting) get treated when I wear a skirt vs trousers. The whole rest of my outfit and appearance is similar - I have the same haircut, glasses, coat, boots, backpack. But when I wear a skirt, I know that people notice me far more, and I also for some reason start getting compliments from women.
So I dont think that’s something which only happens with men noticing women, but that skirts (especially yhe ones which are shorter and more fitting) society at large seems to associate with sexual attraction. I will be honest, it is a bit of fun to know I have so much power over peoples attention - that I can control the amount of attention on me by wearing pants vs a skirt. But I also fully agree with what you’re saying - people can wear skirts just because they like them, not because they want to be sexy to you (shocker moment).
I know that we subconciously do it all the time, but: how do you deal with the fact that people treat you differently just based on what you’re wearing?
I’m not so sure I DO “deal” with it. I just do mostly what I want and get annoyed at people when they get judgemental about it.
I HATE peacocking or doing anything to show off because I hate attention, so style has always been a question I deliberately fail to answer.
Makes sense. Thanks for your insight!
At least to more directly answer your question: I absolutely despise gendered style. You’d imagine access to the loins would be universal, but noooo, of course the more common target of desire gets the short end of the stick…
Humans are still disgustingly simple beings. That’s genuinely how I feel about your question.
Hmm, in which sense simple? Just don’t get the connection :)
Oh definitely. While it’s not a given that bigoted folks are closeted, it’s worth noting that there’s been some studies showing it’s not just a joke: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals/
Your take on it seems likely in other cases, and/or some combo of both.
That said, I would much rather a man with an erection look at me like on the right than like on the left, which was a bit more where my joke was coming from.