Hello Linux community.
I’d like to take a moment to explain what I hope will be a simple concept (so really it’s more of a reminder) that everyone should say least know and understand.
Not everyone (myself included) learns best by RTFM. Some of us need a guiding hand or to watch a video instead. It’s not that we’re lazy or don’t like reading, it’s just that it doesn’t work efficiently enough.
For me RTFM just means “show us you tried something yourself before reaching out for help”. In other words that you tried putting some work in and not just trying to get someone else to do your work or thinking for you.
I’m very happy to help someone willing to learn, but detest helping someone too lazy to do anything themselves.
Long time linux user: The worse problem is they don’t even tell WHICH manual is relevant to the issue.
“How do I make my secondary drive auto-decrypt?” “RTFM”
Could have at least said “man crypttab 5” so that I don’t have to waste 3 hours just trying to find the starting point.
“They”. That’s one sort of people who does RTFM the wrong way in my opinion. If I do RTFM, even for obvious simple ones, I most likely point to where to look at, ideally with a link. I do not RTFM literally, but saying there is some documentation and pointing to it usually. To me just saying RTFM (literally with this acronym) is rude, especially if someone already struggles and asks basic questions. Not everyone is “they”.
RTFM is mostly a flex that people who got help before you are now referring to because they are already on the boat.
That said, a rudimentary Web search or maybe a llm question, might be in order before asking. You also learn more when you get those little successes by yourself.
While I agree that a little search is good for everyone, if no one asks questions publicly then no one has anything to find. I don’t trust llm accuracy so I don’t recommend that.
While not a reliable source on its own, it can usually point you in the right direction.
Tealdeer.
There’s a manual?
Tl;dr.
Not to mention, RTfM is not always possible for some distros like NixOS where the documentation is weaker than for other more mainstream distros.
With NixOS source code is the manual!
What are you talking about?, NixOS documentation is one of the best ones around, not to mention that with just being pointed to the approximate direction of something and having a good text editor you can figure out things quite easily and without risk of breaking your system. I’ve recently switched from Arch and honestly as good as documentation is on Arch, I prefer NixOS one.
Sure if it’s in the Wiki the documentation is not too bad. But just looking for the documention of the lib functions via DuckDuckGo is somehow really hard. And if it’s not in the Wiki or you want the home-manager module, I’ll basically default to first looking at the options on 3rd party websites and then reading the source code for them. (Also the NixOS wiki is obviously not as comprehensive / big as the Arch Wiki)
Are you not aware of https://search.nixos.org/options or https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/options.xhtml ? You can search all available options, sometimes with links to the docs for the thing they set for extra context. Those are both official docs and are derived from the code that you’re already looking at.
I am talking from experience here. Some of the documentation is out of date, some is meant for Channel NixOS installs and not so appropriate for Flake-based installs.
Most of the fixes for my issues I find across NixOS discourse forum posts, or in the subreddit of the other platform. The Wiki/official documentation is not enough.
I’m glad you switched to NixOS (welcome!) but this is gap in documentation is something that will become more apparent over time. The NixOS official wiki ironically often links to Arch wiki to explain certain concepts further.
What am I missing? There should be no difference from “normal” to flake installs on anything NixOS related, only in syntax of the language itself since you’re wrapping things. I’ve gone flakes and now somewhat dendritic and haven’t had to check NixOS docs for anything (only nix language docs and other people’s configs to see how they solved certain language specific peculiarities)
Uh… is the NixOS documentation “one of the best around” or have you never checked it? It really can’t be both.
Understand, I’m not trying to criticize NixOS. I use NixOS exclusively and it’s my daily driver. But the documentation really isn’t all there, and it’s not centralized. The best solutions you find across forums, blog posts, random wikis, and by checking other people’s configs like you said.
But yes, the fact you can test things without fear of breaking your system allows you to make hundreds of mistakes stress-free. That’s one of the best features about NixOS.
I’ve checked the NixOS documentation extensively for setting things up, my point was that I hadn’t had to do so for migrating to flakes, as that’s not a NixOS thing, but rather a Nix language thing.
The idea of RTFM is that if you have questions, then we are all on same page with basic information found in the manual. I mean you expect others explain what is already said in the manual. Its like asking how to use your microwave oven, even if you have the manual right at your hand. Now, if the manual is unclear or difficult to understand, that is a different story. Then you can at least say you didn’t understand it. The point is, that you did something before (your homework) and looked at the obvious places like the manual (and maybe further websearch).
People don’t like others being lazy and asking the questions that doesn’t need to be asked. That’s why RTFM exist. As much as you might take the “RTFM” as an offending answer, those people think of you question as offending too. Now there are people who use this term loosely in places when it is not appropriate. Also it depends on the audience. If your grandma tries to use a browser to watch funny cat videos, and asks how to use it, then it would be inappropriate to say RTFM. But if you have a Linux user who asks about how to use
grep, then I think it is an appropriate reply.additionally, and i’m sorry to say this, the fm often sucks. me being an enterprise architect by (one of my) trade(s), would usually benefit from an architecture or a systems sequence diagram… well this is rarely there :D and i’m saying this being a guy who originally learned to linux by methodically reading through, processing, and trial-and-erroring the complete set of man pages of my first distro, back in 97 or whatever.
NOBODY LEARNS BEST BY RTFM BUT WE DO IT ANYWAY SUCK IT UP
I suggest to replace RTFM by WHYTSF : What Have You Tried So Far.
The goal isn’t to blame or guilt trip anyone, rather it’s to genuinely help and for that others need to know… WHYTSF?!
I’ve tried nothing and I’m all out of ideas.
That is great, it puts the onus on the asker to prove they tried something
Not working efficiently enough is the key. RTFM is a skill and it takes patience and practice. Investing that time is worth it as it is ultimately the fastest way. And you learn peripheral information along the way. If getting the job done now, then do what works for you.
I would however warn against watching video. Watching videos is the slowest way to learn something. Think about how often you watch at 4x only to jump around and miss what you are looking for. Compare that to using a wiki or an old fashion book. Skimming and jumping around is much easier. But once again, do what works for you.
RTFM long predates videos in the internet; at this point I’d actually call it inclusive of videos and guides.
I actually get pretty pissed off when the only guide for a feature beyond a couple lines of “here’s what this can do” with no elaboration is just a video. I don’t want a video. I want a damn manual with working examples.
But if its all there is, I’ll watch it before asking questions. The same should go for people who prefer videos, they should at least try the manual first, or looking at some guides or videos.
What’s frustrating for people (generically speaking) is when zero attempt is made in advance of posting questions, and from what I see, is the majority of “RTFM” responses.
Oh I hate how everything is a video. Sometimes I just want text so I can ship to relevant section.
It drives me nuts.
At least provide a transcript somewhere. Thats all I ask.
sadly dwarfed by YouTube videos that are outdated as soon as they are produced, and web guides nobody maintains. worse, AI scrapers only know this outdated information and happily hallucinate based on it it is EXHAUSTING having users cheer and celebrate the placebo of all the made up bullshit that does nothing in their config or worse breaks everything in unpredictable ways
I hate it when AI hallucinates an answer but I REALLY hate it when I try to ask a question and some smug know-it-all tells me I just want to be spoon fed the answers and didn’t do any research on my own. Usually if I am to the point of writing a post asking for help I have tried the usual ways of finding answers (at least the ones that work for me - man pages decidedly do not) and I’m at the point where yes, I WOULD like to be just spoon-fed the answer if you know it (or at least a relevant link), thank you very much. More than once I have got REALLY pissed off at a guy like that and then usually I’m the one that gets censored or booted out of the forum, while the know-it-all goes on to find another victim to bully. Oh, and then there are the moderators who censor “low quality” posts (except from their friends and users they like).
So when AI came along, I found it much easier to ask it and try to work through the hallucinations than to deal with that, and I suspect a whole lot of other people felt the same, and that is one reason why sites like Stack Exchange saw participation fall off a cliff. And AI keeps getting better and (so far at least) has never once criticized me for not trying hard enough to find something on my own. I get some people want challenges in their lives, but not everyone does and even those who like to be challenged now and then don’t always want it to be in the same areas of their lives. There are people who enjoy running in marathons but who would hate any friction at all when trying to use their computer.
Why not man pages though? That’s a very fast way of finding answers.
AI scrapers only know this outdated information
While I have experienced this (quite a lot), it’s much easier to spend five minutes figuring this out with an AI than it is to spend an hour trying to work that out by searching forums for answers.
I have a suggestion for those that don’t have a burning hatred of all things AI or Google - try NotebookLM (https://notebooklm.google/) which is FREE for limited usage. It may take you a few tries to learn how to use it effectively *there are videos showing how) but what you can do is give it a list of URL’s on any topic. These can be man pages, wiki links, PDF documents, links to specific posts or discussion forums, YouTube videos, or almost anything that can be accessed via a link. You can include up to 50 links for free (up to 10 at a time, I think it is a bug that if you try to add more than 10 at once it just silently fails and then you have to go to a different “notebook” and come back to try again).
Then when you have added all your links, you can ask for a summary of the material, or ask specific questions based just on the links you have added (no more outdated responses). You can even do things like generate graphics or audio “podcasts” or even videos with really bad visuals (IMHO) based on your links collection if you want to. But what I find is when dealing with complex material it often makes connections that I would never have seen. And did I mention it’s free for limited usage? You just need a Google account to use it (and yes I realize that’s a non-starter for some people, and no I would never ever include anything personal in my links or requests).
I find AI way more up to date then searching.
