Since we have a lot of racist redditors coming over here catching bans for their historical ignorance about the June 4th incident, here are some resources:
- Notes for the 30th anniversary of the Tiannment incident.
- It wasn’t a massacre of peaceful students, but a skirmish between PLA soldiers and armed detachments from the pro-capitalist / free market reform movement. The protest movement, as evidenced by their own accounts, called for market liberalisation, and free market reforms, rallying around a replica of the statue of liberty. After the movement had been building in the square for seven weeks, unarmed soldiers were sent in to disperse the protesters, after which many soldiers were beaten to death, torched, and lynched. The New York Times death count went from 2600, to many thousands, to 8000, to tens of thousands. In reality only around ~200 (including soldiers) were killed or trampled, in smaller clashes outside the square. The on-scene New York Times reporter disavowed the article, especially about machine-gunning of protesters. A wikileaks cable from a US ambassador to the US state department, confirmed that no killings or machine-gunnings took place in the square.
- Latin American diplomat eyewitness account of June 3-4 events on Tiananmen Square wikileaks (PDF)
- There was a Spanish television crew that covered the entire Tiananmen Square incident as it unfolded. Their footage showed that there was no massacre. A few things worthy of pointing out - Liu Xiaobo and Hou Dejian, both student leaders of the Tiananmen protests, have been recorded as saying that they never saw anyone killed at the protests.
- The protest movement followed the line of “color revolutions”, in which the US tried to destabilize and create counter-revolutions in eastern Europe and Latin America after the fall of the USSR. The strategy was to stir division within and without, by inundating the media with news of massacres of “peaceful”, pro-capitalist / market reformers.
- The defeat of a counter revolution in China.
- Interviews from some of the student leaders.
- An account from a resident.
- Tiananmen Square “Massacre”, A Propaganda Hoax.
- The truth about the Tiananmen square protests
Westerners aren’t helpless innocents whose minds are injected with atrocity propaganda, science fiction-style; they’re generally smug bourgeois proletarians who intelligently seek out as much racist propaganda as they can get their hands on. This is because it fundamentally makes them feel better about who they are and how they live. The psychic and material costs are rationally worth the benefits. -Roderic Day
All the libs in the comments really living up to the quote.
Lemmitors really didn’t sent their best to this thread.
The Amerikkkan randomly calling me racist while being racist was fun if entirely unproductive. Same with the Canadian settler.
Don’t feel that you need to argue with these racists, because it can lead to burn-out quickly. You can always report them and we’ll try to get to it ASAP.
Also thank you for your hard work in educating everyone. It’s not going to waste, and everyone is learning a lot from your posts. o7
Also thank you for your hard work in educating everyone. It’s not going to waste, and everyone is learning a lot from your posts. o7
Thank you always great to hear.
Don’t feel that you need to argue with these racists, because it can lead to burn-out quickly. You can always report them and we’ll try to get to it ASAP.
Yeah definitely I always make sure to report any actual racism etc I see but it is fun to blow off steam arguing with/making fun of them at the same time even if it’s entirely unproductive.
Speaking from experience. Still be careful. Even when you think you are blowing off steam, more could be going on then you think. I didnt realize how miserable I had gotten till I had take some time away.
Arguing with randos on the internet can honestly really fuck with a person.
Seconding this, @[email protected]’s comments have been fantastic lately, and absolutely aren’t going to waste.
Thank you very glad to hear
If it helps, it was fun to see you owning them
The operative word being smug
Alexa, what is the definition of “irony”?
This is just smug for “no you”
I just finished reading this article today a few hours ago! it felt like such an eerily perfect dissection of liberals it is incredible impressive, it doesn’t reduce their annoyance but it does provide an easier way to deal with it
Link?
My bad for not linking above, here it is: https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels
Thanks I’m looking forward to reading later
No problem!
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Americans think they know about Tienanmen Square 1989 while themselves living in a police state / surveillance state.
No one talks about the Philadelphia police bombing (yes, a literal bombing) of a Black residential neighborhood in 1985.
No one talks about the police brutality against peaceful anti-Vietnam war groups in the 1960s/70s. Veterans who were drafted to fight an immoral war of aggression overseas were then beaten by the police for protesting that war. In 1970, the Ohio national guard opened fire on college students protesting at Kent State.
Eric Garner, Tamir Rice (12 years old), Daniel Shaver, Philando Castile, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Renee Good, Alex Pretti and far, far too many people have been murdered on camera. Millions around the world protested the routine extrajudicial killings of unarmed Americans. But police killings increased every year during the Biden administration and Trump continues to throw people in the back of unmarked vans.
Americans judge the PRC (and every socialist country) by their own retelling of its worst blunder in history; Americans judge the US by it’s latest controversy while forgetting everything else.
I’ve not seen one mention of Tlatelolco massacre which was propped up by the CIA through the mexican goverment.
I love whenever someone posts the “tank man” photo because the liberals always reveal themselves like roaches scattering across the room when a lightswitch is turned on. Mod ban hammer squish them all plz and thank you.
I love your portfolio.
aww, you’re sweet, thank you.
You are so very welcome. Thank you for sharing it with us!
Look up the Bonus Army
What is the bottom photo?
The lady who got shot in Minneapolis.
Renée Good was her name
Ok.
Why is this in c/memes?
Because the libs in here are walking memes
Here on .ml we can enjoy content past cat videos.
No way…. This is a bridge too far for me
Because repetition is an effective way of convincing people to accept a narrative, and meme channels tend to be more widely subbed than others.
The funniest part is, repetition was the exact method used by the US and aligned countries to convince everyone that there was a massacre lmfao
Goebbels’ ghost should be embarrassed he couldn’t pull it off nearly as well.
He was seriously just an amateur compared to US propaganda apparatus, there’s even clear proof how he believed US really do protect it’s citizens, when U-boot sunk SS Athenia 3 september 1939 on which 28 US citizens died, Hitler, Goebbels, Donitz, Raeder immediately panicked that US will use that as casus belli like with Lusitania and they censored and propagandised entire case so much that the fact it was U-boot that sunk the ship was only accidentally revealed at Nuremburg trials.
This is interesting. I wanted to learn more about the propagandizing of it. Do you know of reliable English sites to do that?
Iirc i first read about it in book about WW2 on sea by Janusz Piekałkiewicz and also seen it in some British TV, and it’s on wiki too, so even western libs admit that happened, though they will never go to the conclusion how that compare US and 3rd Reich propaganda apparatus.
Thanks, I saw the Wikipedia entry but didn’t read the whole thing because Wikipedia. I’ll do that, later.
Do you… think that there were no protestor deaths at tiananmen square?
There were both protestor deaths as well as PLA personnel deaths (which outnumbered protestor death, actually). But even the US diplomat who was present through the whole event said that there were riots and riot control, but not a massacre.
It’s only almost 40 years later that the continuous lying about history has twisted people’s perception of what actually happened.
Even American newspapers didn’t call it a massacre until much later lmao. Probably because the evidence of many of the protestors meeting with American officials before the riots was readily available.
Thankfully, such protests/colour revolutions are impossible now in China, so no regime change can be carried out by the US
Pla deaths outnumbered protestor deaths? Jeez, what’re you smoking? Even the Chinese govt didn’t claim that. And why are you thankful that ‘protests are impossible now’? Do you truly relish the political disenfranchisement of the populace so much? Smh my head
Do you truly relish the political disenfranchisement of the populace so much?
If you truly believe we are disenfranchised because the American backed regime change failed I truly feel sorry for you. China has one of the most involved political systems I have heard of. We have constant interaction with our elected representatives at the town/city and county level through the local party offices where feedback criticism and petitions for changes are constant. We are listened to and our ideas are constantly worked on and applied in different ways as satisfying the people and earning achievements is how you get your peers to elect you to the provincial and national level. There is a reason that even from Harvard’s studies they found we have a high satisfaction with our government (95+%).
protests are impossible now
This is also a falsehood we have protests but they are about real single issues as opposed to regime change events backed by outside agitators.
Can’t tell you how much your sympathy means to me, comrade
The working classes are in power in the PRC, not the opposite. They also have sovereignty over their internet and media, rather than letting western countries foment regime change.
It’s cool how you deny the agency and personhood of the protestors by outright stating that they were all plants by ‘western countries’. Very enlightened!
Yawn, try harder.
No, I relish watching imperialist ambitions crumble lol. I hope it happens in every country where the Western powers attempt a colour revolution. And I hope that people that collaborate with imperialist powers get executed for treason.
Idk whether you’re ignorant or malicious, but materialism will always win :)
Imperialism is bound to implode. You can hate the CPC and wish for the people’s revolution to fail, but in the end, it’ll always win, because they’ve understood materialism. Conversely, it’s inevitable that Western countries will implode and collapse because they can’t survive without the exploitation of us third worlders.
Count your days buddy boy. When our time comes, we will make no apologies for the terror
Outstanding to me that my only actual claim – that civilian humans were in fact killed during the infamous protests – is one that you folks actually do accept, albeit reluctantly, but y’all still got your knickers in a twist and are ascribing all sorts of stereotypes to me in your head.
There were no deaths on the square, only around Beijing. The western atrocity porn of the PLA running over unarmed students on the square is entirely fake.
The image is misleading, but the CPC itself acknowledged at least 241 deaths. Also, you cannot find information about the incident while in China. Can personally confirm.
Also, you cannot find information about the incident while in China. Can personally confirm.
Yeah no information, it’s only taught as part of the mandatory “outline of modern Chinese history” at university.
In that link, they refer to it as:
“The 1989 political turmoil and subsidence.”
That is a really weird way to call a massacre, don’t you think?
Please we all know that the Government hides the search results in China if you look for it. Or are you going to deny that?
Like, why lie?
China bans Tiananmen Square-related web search terms https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18321548
https://www.businessinsider.com/words-china-banned-from-search-engines-after-tiananmen-square-2014-6
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/04/tiananmen-square-online-search-censored
Because massacre is poor categorization of what was a violent clash between rioters and the military acting as riot police. Like why pretend to be a leftists when you’re a Canadian settler shitlib. Clearly not very good at categorising things. Also when did I deny their were restrictions around what is a very sensitive event that had western backing? All I said was that it is taught about as part of a mandatory course at university. The idea it’s fully blacked out is western chauvinist fantasy and honestly not even a very creative one. You are not very intelligent are you?
Go get em, Mr. Shlong!
You know there are photos of the dead people right? And videos?
Canadian Seltler shitllib? Hahaha. Cute, friend. You know nothing about me.
Nice that you went and checked my history as to come up with something to side track my points. I am not sure if you are a CCP shill or just brainwashed in propaganda.
Also, you are moving the goal post, friend. You told the guy you responded to that the Tiananmen Square masacre was not censored. It is. That is my point and provided proof that it is and I can do that without lowering to your level of insults. Clearly, I hit a nerve, it is okay Comrade. Be happy.
There is a reason why put a link in Chinese in an English speaking forum without translaltion.
You know there are photos of the dead people right? And videos?
People die when rioters (whose leaders did interviews explaining their plan to incite massive violence and flee to America) clash with the military did I deny that? It was categorically not a massacre.
You know nothing about me.
From replying to you before I know you’re Canadian and a self proclaimed lib thus 90% chance you’re white thus a settler. So taking it all together Canadian settler shitlib.
Nice that you went and checked my history as to come up with something to side track my points. I am not sure if you are a CCP shill or just brainwashed in propaganda.
Again didn’t check your history we’ve simply talked before. Also holy chauvinism really reinforcing the whole settler shitlib. And it’s CPC not CCP.
Also, you are moving the goal post, friend. You told the guy you responded to that the Tiananmen Square masacre was not censored. It is.
Massive twisting of what was said. He said you couldn’t find any information when in fact it is part of the mandatory university course which is all I pointed out.
Again I must ask are you genuinely unintelligent?
You’re a racist Han bigot. Don’t bother relying. I don’t communicate with stupid racists.
I’m not Han lmao. The irony of you making a racist assumption calling me racist. 🤣
You are referring to unarmed protestors against fully armed military, with tanks? LOL, aha. Damn those rioters attacking the military with their own blood, splattered on the square. Those demons!
Not white. You know nothing about me. Keep Shilling, Comrade. Oh, we talked before? Is that so? Oh, fair, but I do not remember you, nor care to know you. It is true that I am a Liberal and I will give you the decency of not being as petty as you, since I do not have to rely on insults when I have facts and sources.
Again, all you have proven is that I hit a nerve. Can’t even take the slightest of critism.
So, here is the difference of the searches that people did even back in the day, noticed the difference between the searches in Chinese VS the ones outside of China. Thus proving OPs and my point.
For anyone to look, like this is nothing new. This is how China would change results on actual internet searches. https://imgur.com/a/vbkFA
The university course on your link is reframed, obviously. That is the whole point on censorship. I can tell by the other curses and the content that a lot of things are reframed as well. Again, there is reason why you posted a Chinese link in an English focused site. We all know how idealogues think.
Anyway, stop lying. That point remains.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
So, either they do not know, which I fully doubt, if you hear what she says, or they do know, which is the case,but do not want to publicly discuss it on camera and risk getting any type of trouble. Take your pick.
From 2008: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuuddurPLV8&t=86
Rely in common sense comrade. Have a great one, Cheers.
You are referring to unarmed protestors against fully armed military, with tanks? LOL, aha. Damn those rioters attacking the military with their own blood, splattered on the square. Those demons!
They literally immolated and lynched military guards to start the riot. You are extremely fucking arrogant for how little you understand anything.
when I have facts and sources
Lmao. What you actually have is a chauvinist fantasy and an immense arrogance.
Can’t even take the slightest of critism.
you have provided no criticism just a vast misrepresentation of what I said and the events in question.
So, here is the difference of the searches that people did even back in the day, noticed the difference between the searches in Chinese VS the ones outside of China. Thus proving OPs and my point.
Again not what we were talking about he said there was no information implying and perpetuating the nonsense lie that the date/event is scrubbed from history which is factually incorrect in the same way saying Winnie the pooh is banned is factually incorrect.
The university course on your link is reframed, obviously. That is the whole point on censorship. I can tell by the other curses and the content that a lot of things are reframed as well. Again, there is reason why you posted a Chinese link in an English focused site. We all know how idealogues think.
Chauvinism.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
He’s famous because who he is and what he did are completely reframed in the west as some sacrificial martyr jumping Infront of tanks (generally with the implication that he was ran over) whereas in reality he was a random man who wanted the tanks to return to the square and was ushered off by passers by not really a revolutionary figure or particularly relevant to the event as a whole. You people are so insufferably arrogant your vision and imagination must be reality.
Rely in common sense comrade.
“Just believe the western propoganda”. I’m no comrade of yours you Hitlerite settler.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
I genuinely can’t believe a person can be this dumb. Did you ever consider the fact that Tank Man is completely irrelevant for history and it’s only a fucking image for propaganda? Why anyone knows about the image? Because is the image about the square that appears when people talk about the event. This guy is completely irrelevant.
The nerve of saying can personally confirm a complete bullshit lmao.
I was referring to blocked articles specifically about the incident on the internet. I did not know about the curated version taught in universities.
I can already picture you going to uni, running into a history class, and screaming about fake news (In english of course lol)
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Do you support the Jan 6 insurgency, yes or no?
I bet this logic trap goes hard if you’re a fucking moron. To spring it: No, I don’t support Jan 6 insurgents.
I am against any lethal action by governments towards their own citizens. And I don’t support murder or overthrowing governments by force either. So I don’t support insurgents trying to depose governments violently, and also I don’t support police killing people. The ideal situation would be to identify and arrest rioters. Which is, as it turned out, exactly what the US did until the new administration took over.
The idea that rioters attacking and beating people to death should be reasonably countered with expanding bullets, that poles and firebombs are reasonably opposed by rifles, frankly puts you in some sorry moral company. You should take a hard look at yourself if that’s the kind of behavior you condone from a government, under any circumstance. Professional soldiers and law enforcement don’t kill civilians.
Only a few hundred people died, not thousands. And some people may have been armed! So it’s fine to kill scores of people.
“Some people” aka insurrectionists were not maybe armed.
These insurrectionists bombed and killed soldiers. And THEY. BOMBED. FIRST.
There is no maybe in this scenario just as much as there is no maybe in the Jan 6th insurrection.
What were these other soldiers supposed to do that are trained to fight and protect their country?
Just stand there and take some more?
What is the proper response according to you when a group of terrorists bombs a military convoy?The tanks were driving away and didn’t kill anyone this time
They didn’t kill him because he posed no threat unlike the terrorists that bombed their convoy.
End of story.What were these other soldiers supposed to do that are trained to fight and protect their country? Just stand there and take some more? What is the proper response according to you when a group of terrorists bombs a military convoy?
You edited your post so I’ll reply again: The test, which America and China both repeatedly fail, is having professional law enforcement and soldiers kill their own citizens. This is one of the most utter, final failures of government. There are plenty of options besides killing people, and when you take up arms and swear oaths to protect your country, and then kill citizens of your own country, you break your oath.
Your argument fails because there’s no need to actually intercede and halt protests. In the case of the pro-democracy movement crushed by the PLA in June 1989, martial law and attacks on protesters had begun en masse 2 weeks before the massacre. There was a steady escalation of violence leading up to the riots in early june. So the idea that the protestors “struck first” (even if that is a justification, which it isn’t, is false. The facts, which aren’t in dispute, were that the anti-corruption policies implemented to answer the complaints of the protestors were well-received, and further reforms were desired by everyone, not just the student protestors. Everyone except the local officials who were at risk of losing their positions by a government overhaul from authoritarianism to democracy.
The protest could have continued to be disrupted the way they already were before the massacre:
- Through wiretaps and arrests
- Through planted dissenters sowing chaos in the student’s ranks
- Through rubber bullets + tear gas, and other nonlethal methods
Instead, even though 300,000 people were protesting that period, the actions of an interim commander who acted on poor discipline and leadership, directly lead to at least hundreds, and possibly thousands, of his own people, in a small section of the city. That is a spectacular failure, and the end of a certain degree of human autonomy in China.
This is coming from someone who actually thinks China is leading the world in many ways. I do genuinely believe that China is actually less corrupt than many other nations, and the high degree of social cohesion in-country is something that gives them strength. Like I said in my first post: lots to admire, but this ain’t it.
The protest could have continued to be disrupted the way they already were before the massacre:
Through wiretaps and arrests Through planted dissenters sowing chaos in the student’s ranks Through rubber bullets + tear gas, and other nonlethal methods
A) There was no “massacre”
B) We have no idea if these tactics weren’t also used, and
C) Let’s be honest, if they had done these things and it had worked, you people would never shut the fuck up about that either.
This is just the other bullet points again! I’m sure if more armed rebels entered the capital it would have been incredibly messy and people would have died. And killing a ton of people, regardless of why, is a failure of government. Conflating one violent protest with another and then saying “America Bad so China Fine” is inane.
Were the deaths of 20 “armed rebels” during september 11 2001 and the consequent killings in Pakistan a failure the Usonian government?
Was the cause of the twin towers collapsing and ~3000 dying, a result of Usonia being too much of a police state?Or why not go to something more recent, is the armed rebellion since 2014 in Ukraine,
that’s more recently backed by Russian troops, against Zelensky,
an example to you that Ukraine is a police state?I’m sure if more armed rebels entered the capital it would have been incredibly messy and people would have died.
Is thus the Jan 6th insurrection an example to you of Usonia being a police state?
And killing a ton of people, regardless of why, is a failure of government.
So if a government A declares war on government B and starts to use lethal force, it’s a failure of government B if it decides to kill the invading army?
What if government A has a drug policy to keep as many people addicted to a drug in government B and if government
What if government A decides to support a destructive religious cult in government B and these people start to violently suppress any form of criticism against them while infiltrating key political positions?And does a “failure of government” automatically mean that such government is a police state?
Conflating one violent protest with another and then saying “Usonia Evil so China Good” is inane.
No, what’s inane is to conflate the actions of a government that uses lethal force to respond to terrorists doing terrorist acts at a protest with legalized murder by car to any protester that blocks a roadway, have your secret police shoot and arrest anyone who films during a protest including journalists, have your secret police force migration of the homeless and of legal immigrants and citizens deemed “culturally inferior”, by calling them both police states.
You are not living in a totalitarian police state when your government is failing to arrest a terrorist group carrying dozens of petrol bombs during a protest that was going on for months on end. A police state would suppress the protest on day one, which is what Usonia is doing to pro-Palestine protests. A totalitarian would surveil all protesters on day one, which is what Usonia is doing.
Usonia is experiencing indirect pressure from another country for the first time in history,
indirect pressure that is extremely mild and yet I would argue it’s reaction was to immediately put a fascist into power and go further into fascism than Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany tried to genocide all Jews, Usonia seems to target the whole planet except for the Zionist Jews.Usonia harbored an extreme “we are the exceptionally freedom people” ideology, an off-shoot of the century earlier “we are the exceptionally civilized people” ideology, but now due to the extremely mild external pressure, Usonia has gotten far worse and made a 180 degree turn to every rule it imposed on other nations for itself and now forces other nations to follow.
Even worse, it’s gone so far as to flip these rules again on a daily whim, if not every hour, minute or second.
Nazi Germany did not do that.Nazi Germany at least seemed to care somewhat about its own citizens.
MAGA Usonia seems to want to starve its own citizens to death, even the vast majority of its own supporters seem to be inferior creatures not worth living in the eyes of the Usonian oligarchs.
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