Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang said that the company’s market share of AI accelerators in China has now dropped to 0%. The drop is staggering, given that the company owned a lion’s share of China’s AI accelerator market just about two years ago.
“In China, we have now dropped to zero,” said Jensen Huang in an interview with the Special Competitive Studies Project, a bipartisan initiative by American lawmakers aimed at ensuring long-term competitiveness of the U.S. “Conceding an entire market the size of China probably does not make a lot of strategic sense, so I think that has already largely backfired. Maybe it made sense at the time, but I think the policy really needs to be dynamic and needs to stay with the times. I think it would be fairly safe to say that having American chip companies and other companies in China makes a lot of sense.”
It never made any sense…
China used Nvidia because that’s what it had, but they have virtually no patent law and a giant workforce experienced at making chips
Any idiot could have predicted if you cut China off from Nvidia chips, they’d use their own, quickly surpass Nvidia, leaving Americans not being able to ripoff Chinese progress, unless we get our hands on the new Chinese chips if they’re not direct ripoffs of what Nvidia is doing.
Even if they start that way, it’s a fork. China will do things that Nvidia isn’t.
Eventually they’ll diverage enough to separate, unless Nvidia is copying China, which means they’ll always be a lag.
American’s corporate structure is what can’t compete with China. Our corporations own our government, in China the government owns the corporations. And with a one party government that doesn’t have to worry about elections, they can plan decades or longer at a time. Corps by definition only care one financial quarter at a time.
Both countries have rampant corruption and can do a lot better, but having a government in charge of corps will always work out better than corps running a government.
The problem is American corps would rather lose if the only way to win is give up their power in America. Hell, we already saw with Chinese EVs that corps can just make the government outlaw competitors so they don’t have to compete and maintain profits.
If a government controlled corporations, theyd be ok with domestic companies being forced to adapt, or go out of business and be replaced by a new one. In America corporations can no longer fail, and that will eventually cause the country to fail if it’s not fixed.
Two parties is bad enough. I will never, ever trust a one-party government. That’s like — what if conspiracy theories, but they are just public policy? Frankly not unlike our government currently, but I’d prefer more parties than fewer.
More parties is a disaster. The Netherlands is a prime example. Hundreds of parties so no one ever has majority which means they always have to do a coalition. And if course that means hardly anything gets done because there is never consensus. And you can count how many times in the last decade, the Dutch government either resigned or fell.
That is why it’s a bit of mess and people have totally lost faith in politics in the Netherlands.
The Dutch actually have a real pedophile party - much smaller than the Republican party in the US - but still. There is a pirate party, animal party, party against citizens.
At least in China, shit gets done. There are 5,10, 15 and 25 year plans and generally the government doesn’t deviate from it. Of course every year they discuss and make adjustments but the main points remain. In China’s case it’s self reliance, green energy, technology, infrastructure and social security and services.
Makes it easier for business to better anticipate and innovate as you know what the goals are.
That photo shows a paper with all eligible representatives for all eligible parties for that election. We don’t have “hundreds of parties” (although we have, IMO, too many — but a fair few of them are splinter fractions on the right).
One-party is awesome for you if who you like is in power (or you don’t even think about it). But when they aren’t and/or times are not good, the only way to change is through coup or civil war…not fun, especially in complex societies.
It depends on the party. Being able to pick from of a dozen different parties of capital is no different from picking from a dozen brands of peanut butter that came out of the same factory.
Depends on how democratic the mechanisms of the party is. Cuba’s party has only become more democratic as time has gone on, and resulted in better outcomes for the people and enshrining gay rights in a constitutional referendum, which passed with 90%+ in favor. China’s party has certainly became more democratic than in the 2000s when politicians were openly controlled by business.
It’s not useful to analyze parties and states in a vacuum independent of each other, the ultimate proof of how democratic a system is is whether its results favor the people or capital.
Yea when one of the “became more democratic” also involve persecution and incarceration of ethnic groups, it has failed. Again, authoritarianism doesn’t work. You may have stints where it seems okay from the outside but it won’t end in the favor of the people.
It’s less about how good/bad the West is and more about your perspective being influenced by the West’s media sphere.
For most Western leftists, the only kind of revolution or movement they support are failed ones. The moment a movement actually succeeds and starts asserting control of it’s own resources, you can count on hearing all about its worst aspects, if not outright fabrications, while the positive things get minimized, ignored, or “but at what cost” 'd. On top of this is the fact that some people have some perfect rosy ideal that could never exist because it fails to account for real world problems with no easy answer that you’d have to contend with in practice.
The result is a completely backwards analysis where failures are idolized and successes are seen as cautionary tales. Y’all also seem to think you’re the first people in all of history to ever have the idea of “freedom good” occur to them. Which I mean, if you don’t, and your approach works, then what do you have to show for it?
Evil authoritarian China lifted 800 billion people out of extreme poverty over the last 40 years. It has gone from one of the poorest countries on earth to one of the most powerful, it has established an alternative economic sphere which gives non-aligned countries choices on who to deal with (while often forgiving the debts of poor countries). But some sources in the West say they persecute minorities, and do you actually apply an ounce of skepticism to those claims? Do you critically evaluate the pros and cons and come to a nuanced, realistic evaluation of the country? Or do you just knee-jerk accept it and condemn them, wholly and without question?
Any idiot could have predicted if you cut China off from Nvidia chips, they’d use their own, quickly surpass Nvidia, leaving Americans not being able to ripoff Chinese progress, unless we get our hands on the new Chinese chips if they’re not direct ripoffs of what Nvidia is doing.
I agree the policy never made sense, but Chinese chips are still a few generations behind and will remain that way for a while.
China currently has a physical limit to transistor size that is enforced by the physics of their lithography machines. They are doing everything they can to use export-controlled ASML technology including rebuilding prior generational tech from the second-hand market, but that is a.K2-level sheer-face climb. Considering how much unique knowledge ASML and TSMC have, even corporate espionage can’t fill in those gaps probably for a decade.
They absolutely are using homegrown chips that are lower quality and making up for it in quantity, however, using older lithography.
but Chinese chips are still a few generations behind and will remain that way for a while.
Buddy…
That’s the problem.
China has “worse” chips, but they’re finding ways to make them beat the “best” chips…
If China still used Nvidia, then others could rip off their gains in code and training.
But once Chinese chips are different enough, then all of the Nvidia line the west is sinking money into at an unprecedented rate becomes the guy who sank his inheritance into a Betamax rental store.
All those data centers, manufacturing, everything, obsolete.
But American companies won’t admit that, because then they stop making money. And they control the American government, so no one will stop them.
We’re going full speed towards a massive technological deadend, because the people driving the bus know that if they crash, they can make the government use our tax money to bail them out.
It never made any sense…
China used Nvidia because that’s what it had, but they have virtually no patent law and a giant workforce experienced at making chips
Any idiot could have predicted if you cut China off from Nvidia chips, they’d use their own, quickly surpass Nvidia, leaving Americans not being able to ripoff Chinese progress, unless we get our hands on the new Chinese chips if they’re not direct ripoffs of what Nvidia is doing.
Even if they start that way, it’s a fork. China will do things that Nvidia isn’t.
Eventually they’ll diverage enough to separate, unless Nvidia is copying China, which means they’ll always be a lag.
American’s corporate structure is what can’t compete with China. Our corporations own our government, in China the government owns the corporations. And with a one party government that doesn’t have to worry about elections, they can plan decades or longer at a time. Corps by definition only care one financial quarter at a time.
Both countries have rampant corruption and can do a lot better, but having a government in charge of corps will always work out better than corps running a government.
The problem is American corps would rather lose if the only way to win is give up their power in America. Hell, we already saw with Chinese EVs that corps can just make the government outlaw competitors so they don’t have to compete and maintain profits.
If a government controlled corporations, theyd be ok with domestic companies being forced to adapt, or go out of business and be replaced by a new one. In America corporations can no longer fail, and that will eventually cause the country to fail if it’s not fixed.
Two parties is bad enough. I will never, ever trust a one-party government. That’s like — what if conspiracy theories, but they are just public policy? Frankly not unlike our government currently, but I’d prefer more parties than fewer.
Two wings of the same bird of prey, unfortunately.
More parties is a disaster. The Netherlands is a prime example. Hundreds of parties so no one ever has majority which means they always have to do a coalition. And if course that means hardly anything gets done because there is never consensus. And you can count how many times in the last decade, the Dutch government either resigned or fell. That is why it’s a bit of mess and people have totally lost faith in politics in the Netherlands. The Dutch actually have a real pedophile party - much smaller than the Republican party in the US - but still. There is a pirate party, animal party, party against citizens.
At least in China, shit gets done. There are 5,10, 15 and 25 year plans and generally the government doesn’t deviate from it. Of course every year they discuss and make adjustments but the main points remain. In China’s case it’s self reliance, green energy, technology, infrastructure and social security and services. Makes it easier for business to better anticipate and innovate as you know what the goals are.
Dutch voting form the size of a newspaper
That photo shows a paper with all eligible representatives for all eligible parties for that election. We don’t have “hundreds of parties” (although we have, IMO, too many — but a fair few of them are splinter fractions on the right).
Don’t spread bullshit, please.
One-party is awesome for you if who you like is in power (or you don’t even think about it). But when they aren’t and/or times are not good, the only way to change is through coup or civil war…not fun, especially in complex societies.
It depends on the party. Being able to pick from of a dozen different parties of capital is no different from picking from a dozen brands of peanut butter that came out of the same factory.
No single party won’t eventually turn into a mess. Authoritarianism is never going to end well for the population.
Depends on how democratic the mechanisms of the party is. Cuba’s party has only become more democratic as time has gone on, and resulted in better outcomes for the people and enshrining gay rights in a constitutional referendum, which passed with 90%+ in favor. China’s party has certainly became more democratic than in the 2000s when politicians were openly controlled by business.
It’s not useful to analyze parties and states in a vacuum independent of each other, the ultimate proof of how democratic a system is is whether its results favor the people or capital.
Yea when one of the “became more democratic” also involve persecution and incarceration of ethnic groups, it has failed. Again, authoritarianism doesn’t work. You may have stints where it seems okay from the outside but it won’t end in the favor of the people.
No system that challenges Western hegemony could ever “work” so long as your perspective is grounded in its propaganda.
Say whatever you want about the west, it doesn’t automatically make authoritarianism good or better.
It’s less about how good/bad the West is and more about your perspective being influenced by the West’s media sphere.
For most Western leftists, the only kind of revolution or movement they support are failed ones. The moment a movement actually succeeds and starts asserting control of it’s own resources, you can count on hearing all about its worst aspects, if not outright fabrications, while the positive things get minimized, ignored, or “but at what cost” 'd. On top of this is the fact that some people have some perfect rosy ideal that could never exist because it fails to account for real world problems with no easy answer that you’d have to contend with in practice.
The result is a completely backwards analysis where failures are idolized and successes are seen as cautionary tales. Y’all also seem to think you’re the first people in all of history to ever have the idea of “freedom good” occur to them. Which I mean, if you don’t, and your approach works, then what do you have to show for it?
Evil authoritarian China lifted 800 billion people out of extreme poverty over the last 40 years. It has gone from one of the poorest countries on earth to one of the most powerful, it has established an alternative economic sphere which gives non-aligned countries choices on who to deal with (while often forgiving the debts of poor countries). But some sources in the West say they persecute minorities, and do you actually apply an ounce of skepticism to those claims? Do you critically evaluate the pros and cons and come to a nuanced, realistic evaluation of the country? Or do you just knee-jerk accept it and condemn them, wholly and without question?
I agree the policy never made sense, but Chinese chips are still a few generations behind and will remain that way for a while.
China currently has a physical limit to transistor size that is enforced by the physics of their lithography machines. They are doing everything they can to use export-controlled ASML technology including rebuilding prior generational tech from the second-hand market, but that is a.K2-level sheer-face climb. Considering how much unique knowledge ASML and TSMC have, even corporate espionage can’t fill in those gaps probably for a decade.
They absolutely are using homegrown chips that are lower quality and making up for it in quantity, however, using older lithography.
Buddy…
That’s the problem.
China has “worse” chips, but they’re finding ways to make them beat the “best” chips…
If China still used Nvidia, then others could rip off their gains in code and training.
But once Chinese chips are different enough, then all of the Nvidia line the west is sinking money into at an unprecedented rate becomes the guy who sank his inheritance into a Betamax rental store.
All those data centers, manufacturing, everything, obsolete.
But American companies won’t admit that, because then they stop making money. And they control the American government, so no one will stop them.
We’re going full speed towards a massive technological deadend, because the people driving the bus know that if they crash, they can make the government use our tax money to bail them out.