Episodic shows are better than serial ones. Serial shows leave so many loose ends. Episodic shows are focused and deliver a full story in under an hour. DS9 is so long and rambling, it could have been done concisely in just a few seasons.
Allamaraine!
peak trek was TNG seasons 3-5.
DS9 was “nu trek” because it strayed from the original optimistic view of the utopian future and became edgy.
TOS and TNG Seasons 1-2 were too horny and hippy.
TNG Seasons 6-7 were running out of ideas or getting edgy.
IDK too much about VOY and ENT.
I think DS9 works if you consider it more as a “show about star trek” rather than just as “star trek”. E.g., it’s a good deconstruction of what is “necessary” for a utopia, or for looking at the limits of how a utopia van operate in practice.
DS9’s characters and their dynamics are my favorite amongst any star trek show, but I think it’s fair to say that the show does not stick to the core world building “pillars” of star trek. However, I think it would be unfair to dismiss it as simply edgy for the sake of edginess.
(Similar to KOTOR and star wars - really cool how the game turns the idea of the Force on its head, but definitely not in line with George Lucas’ vision. I would still want to see a movie about this anyways)
you make a salient point. I don’t know if I’m inclined to agree, but it’s a good point.
Similar to KOTOR and star wars - really cool how the game turns the idea of the Force on its head, but definitely not in line with George Lucas’ vision.
Not sure I follow. I loved KOTOR2 (my favourite piece of star wars)
I think the main difference between original trilogy and KOTOR series would be whether or not the Force has a will - original series treats the Force extremely closely to the concept of Tao (Lucas being a methodist buddhist), without any particular ‘agenda’
KOTOR2, especially Kreia, treats the Force more sapiently, and as something that can be killed - which seems to contradict Obi-Wan’s original description of it in a New Hope (if the Force is created by living things and binds the universe together, then surely you could only “destroy” the force if the universe and living things in it are gone).
OTOH, you could easily say that Kreia is unreliable, which would make this interpretation simply Kreia’s perspective, rather than KOTOR2 trying to adjust canon. Or you could also say that Obi-Wan is simplifying things greatly since he doesn’t have much time, and he isn’t exactly truthful about other things, either. (And it’s been a few years since I played the KOTOR games so I could be misremembering)
It’s also fair to say that George Lucas doesn’t always follow George Lucas’ original vision… (i.e., midichlorians, which certainly depart from original buddhist inspirations). Personally, taking the “original vision” and cleaving to whatever was made first isn’t important to me, so long as you can tell a good story I don’t mind what retcons/worldbuilding changes happen.
OTOH, you could easily say that Kreia is unreliable, which would make this interpretation simply Kreia’s perspective, rather than KOTOR2 trying to adjust canon.
this seems to make more sense to me. I just took her ramblings as “bad guy shit” and forgot since I played it like over a decade ago.
It’s also fair to say that George Lucas doesn’t always follow George Lucas’ original vision… (i.e., midichlorians, which certainly depart from original buddhist inspirations).
Jar Jar is the key to all this /s
Most of TNG painted a picture of a perfect utopian Starfleet and how humans had grown up, like you say . (Obviously, humanity is never perfect but the messaging is fairly clear: They try.)
I can chime in more about VOY and ENT though…
VOY is my favorite and also when you start to see a little more of humanity in Starfleet. We learned a few things like: The Prime Directive/Temporal Prime Directives were always just suggestions, murder could actually be justified, you will never get promoted past ensign if you play the clarinet and chemical addiction is still a key driver in human decisions and behavior.
ENT is just the human transition out of a military focused race to a race focused on exploration. (I am not sure why Archer always seems to have serious case of constipation, but it is what it is.)
I don’t know, DS9 is not that edgy and when there is extremist actions they are complained for not follow the starfleet tradition or being unethicals.
In the aftermath, Cardassian and Human colonists are resettled on the poisoned colonies, exchanging their former homes. Back on DS9, Eddington is turned over to Odo, and Dax has Sisko confess that he didn’t clear his plot to poison the Maquis colonies with Starfleet. Dax remarks that undertaking that action was a big gamble and Sisko responds that that is what it takes to be a good villain. “You know, sometimes I like it when the bad guy wins,” Dax tells Sisko as they walk away from the airlock.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/For_the_Uniform_(episode)
It doesn’t make it seem like there was any comeuppance for , IDK, using weapons of mass destruction on civillians and hoping their evacuation within an hour doesn’t fail.
Nailed it. Though I still love them all
Some of the most fun trek is DS9’s “on station, at Quark’s” episodes/moments. (I have not seen anything beyond 2 eps of lower decks, or SNW)
TNG is great serious Trek. It’s quite straight up though.
Still my favorite, partially for nostalgia since I watched it as a kid, but kind of like how you described, it’s the one with the most optimistic/inspiring utopian picture of the future
Unpopular opinion - DS9 is my least favorite so far. I liked Discovery more and ENT even more so. Voyager is my heart. TNG, TOS, Lower Decks… all amazing. I’m saving SNW cause I know it’s gonna be good. So unless Picard is really that bad, DS9 hangs in last place for me right now
Don’t get me wrong, the character development is great and the show was good. But DS9 just wasn’t very “Trek” to me. Don’t hate me
Man you know when people say they have an unpopular opinion usually it’s some lukewarm take, but this is pure unique stance and while I absolutely do not share it I salute you for it.
@MrShankles @theyllneverfindmehere
No hate from me, but DS9 did take a few seasons to get going. It wasn’t our father’s Trek but was an important series for how Trek developed.
Picard was flipping amazing and probably the best new Trek for ages. SNW is also very good 🙂🖖
We all like what we like I suppose. I thought Picard was the most inconsistent shows I’ve seen. The character was unrecognizable until parts of the “third season” which was almost a completely different show.
I know Trek has historically always taken a season or two to get going, but now with 10 episode seasons you feel how bad writing is right away without any of the charm.
I have a suspicion of a lot of shows lately. Someone has a script. It makes its way through the system and eventually it lands somewhere with some sway. They say “Good enough script but it needs an IP to be attached to. What do we have available in our library of IP? Slap Star Trek on this. Slap Addams Family on that.” These shows say they are one thing but feel like they were written for an entirety different subject matter. Then when it gets mixed reactions, the next season bails on any of the material from the last and just does something entirely different." In my humble opinion.
Enjoy what you enjoy. Don’t let an old internet nerd sway your opinion or ruin your fun.
I’ll just be in the corner drinking at Quark’s.
Upvoted because I like to see some positivity about Picard, a show that certainly could have been great. I was very excited after the first episode, thought there was a huge amount of promise in the direction they were going. But it felt like they has a dozen good ideas and no plan on how to bring them together into a coherent story. It’s probably the most frustrating Trek show for that reason.
Is that Dr. Migleemo behind the poster?
It’s uncanny, but I believe that’s Duck
It is in fact Duck. I did not intend that coincidence, but it is welcome.
