I couldn’t believe it when they actually hired somebody at a job I used to work at, to work with three of us who all had CS degrees, who had been through six weeks of a Vo-tech program after recently graduating high school. And the higher-ups actually expected this person to be able to work on the stack we were using at the same level we did.
I’m a person who dropped out and I’ll be the first to say I don’t think a diploma means much. But I taught myself programming when I was 13, did programming competitions, math contests, and have spent thousands of hours programming, working on algorithms, reading math books, etc. And I know where I’m out of my depth.
That being said, that’s NOTHING in experience. They could learn from there, but they’d be a very very hands on intern.
My problem with what you’re saying is then the expectation becomes that I’m going to give you the education that I paid and took the time for, I’m not getting paid to be your professor and since I’m the senior that we’re not meeting our deadlines falls on me not you. And I’m not talking about just programming knowledge, a CS degree is far more than programming, one of my classes was just how to talk to users and understand what their needs are through interviewing and observing. And I say this is somebody who also dropped out but then went back later and finished my degree.
A diploma is not nothing, I just think it’s not the only thing. Traditional paths just never worked for me and there are others out there too.
I don’t mean to belittle you or people with a degree. I know that’s what it reads as though and I’m sorry for that.
But yes, hiring someone with that experience is going to need to be hand held significantly for years, and that’s something you don’t foist on people. It’s not going to speed a team up, and prior who don’t want to teach aren’t good teachers.
I appreciate you saying that, and I’m not saying that self-taught developers can’t be effective. But my experience has been like home schooled people. In rare cases you can’t tell until the person tells you, but for the most part they are obvious in a bad way and are oblivious to it and there really isn’t an in between. At the end of the day though self-taught or not the worst are people who feel that their learning is over.
Maturity gap sounds more like a hiring miss on culture fit than an issue with mentoring. More of an org issue IMO. Their education level shouldn’t really matter if they have a good attitude and willingness to be coached.
Yes, my original comment was about being irritated that that person was hired, and they were very much not willing to be coached or I would have been a lot more willing to help them.
I couldn’t believe it when they actually hired somebody at a job I used to work at, to work with three of us who all had CS degrees, who had been through six weeks of a Vo-tech program after recently graduating high school. And the higher-ups actually expected this person to be able to work on the stack we were using at the same level we did.
I’m a person who dropped out and I’ll be the first to say I don’t think a diploma means much. But I taught myself programming when I was 13, did programming competitions, math contests, and have spent thousands of hours programming, working on algorithms, reading math books, etc. And I know where I’m out of my depth.
That being said, that’s NOTHING in experience. They could learn from there, but they’d be a very very hands on intern.
My problem with what you’re saying is then the expectation becomes that I’m going to give you the education that I paid and took the time for, I’m not getting paid to be your professor and since I’m the senior that we’re not meeting our deadlines falls on me not you. And I’m not talking about just programming knowledge, a CS degree is far more than programming, one of my classes was just how to talk to users and understand what their needs are through interviewing and observing. And I say this is somebody who also dropped out but then went back later and finished my degree.
I definitely said a stupid thing.
A diploma is not nothing, I just think it’s not the only thing. Traditional paths just never worked for me and there are others out there too.
I don’t mean to belittle you or people with a degree. I know that’s what it reads as though and I’m sorry for that.
But yes, hiring someone with that experience is going to need to be hand held significantly for years, and that’s something you don’t foist on people. It’s not going to speed a team up, and prior who don’t want to teach aren’t good teachers.
I appreciate you saying that, and I’m not saying that self-taught developers can’t be effective. But my experience has been like home schooled people. In rare cases you can’t tell until the person tells you, but for the most part they are obvious in a bad way and are oblivious to it and there really isn’t an in between. At the end of the day though self-taught or not the worst are people who feel that their learning is over.
Part of the job of senior devs is to mentor juniors regardless of their background. Not to gatekeep over your own degree.
There is a big difference between mentoring and dealing with a 4 year difference in education and maturity.
Maturity gap sounds more like a hiring miss on culture fit than an issue with mentoring. More of an org issue IMO. Their education level shouldn’t really matter if they have a good attitude and willingness to be coached.
Yes, my original comment was about being irritated that that person was hired, and they were very much not willing to be coached or I would have been a lot more willing to help them.