Even if you, a private citizen, buys someone data to intimidate them, it just amounts to stalking and harassment. That’s not fascism.
If you’re saying that the government is outsourcing stalking and harassment of private citizens via these means, then that’s an interesting take. Personally, I think a government body may not necessarily have anything to do with such a thing, but private entities with resources could do it. Like some crazed hedge fund dude targeting anti-genocide protesters. These private entities may even get government contracts, so who knows.
In U.S. history civil rights activists were straight up assassinated, and so were U.S. presidents who got too uppity as far as someone else was concerned. Environmental or social justice activists were always targeted or tracked by govt. agencies. The regular person who holds spicy political takes on any ideology isn’t a concern unless they’re in the news or getting attention.
I am not naive about the state of things, but I also don’t think they’re any worse than they’ve been before in terms of govt control over activism. The main problem now is psyops at scale. Countries like China and Russia safeguard themselves from it by having a homogenous culture, which is antithetical to democracies.
Tbh it’s not mass surveillance that adds chilling effects to activist action, but the constant seizing of power and resources by oligarchs. I think in this instance people who want change should become a part of the system, ie the government or its agencies.
If we fool ourselves into thinking the U.S. or any other western state is as bad as current fascists regimes, we’ve lost the psyops war. Can things be better, yes. There’s no way to get that without organizing for change, and creating strong local communities.
I’m pretty sure moving into a administration who plans on mass deportations requiring holding camps, literal work camps for the mentally ill, and the degradation of regulations/rights are all clear signs we are moving in that direction.
I mean come on man, Trump couldn’t have his first pick for AG be approved because he said “We will drag the bodies of our political opponents through the streets” he said that, and that was Trump’s first choice for the most powerful prosecutor in the country.
When the fascists show us who they are WE SHOULD BELIEVE THEM!
I think the main difference is that people who hold different political opinions are not randomly falling out of windows
The other difference is that you can have protests and still get what you want. Or you can vote and still have the change you voted for count.
If voting didn’t matter at all in the US or other democracies, psyop campaigns wouldn’t be targeting the citizens, but only the leaders or officials, elected or otherwise
When you say “randomly falling out windows,” I think you mean that the state is not assassinating its own citizens to protect the electability of the (small-F) fascist ruling party. That’s a pretty specific line to draw. I’m not sure if that’s what you mean because you continue to cloak your meaning in euphemism and irony.
You say that there are still elections where votes are counted fairly, and that public speech is still permitted. I would suggest that is not the minimum requirement for a fair election or political empowerment. It’s interesting that you suppose that psyops exist and are effective against voters, but that there are still free elections where people are able to enact the changes they have presumably been induced to want.
It sounds very much like you are saying, “yes, while it resembles fascism in every way, real fascism would be the same thing but worse.” You can appreciate I am sure that other people have other standards, and that yours are not really universally accepted. John Kelly gave a very good off-the-cuff definition recently. Rather than presenting my own, I invite you to refute his.
I meant more as in opposition party members or political foes are not routinely disposed of
If people have the standards you claim they do, they sure as hell don’t vote that way.
So I guess a more educated public might help in this case? How do you tell people they have it worse off? Americans are so dumb that they can’t even look at Nordic countries for good examples of how to be.
People are collectively losing their minds if their think any western country is anywhere near fascism. Have you lived in Russia or North Korea?
Western nations are losing the psyops war, which is what you see in a lot of countries.
The main problem is that our representatives and elected officials are just as likely to believe emotional propaganda as any regular person.
This is why we need better public education, so the general population, including any elected official, has better critical thinking.
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Even if you, a private citizen, buys someone data to intimidate them, it just amounts to stalking and harassment. That’s not fascism.
If you’re saying that the government is outsourcing stalking and harassment of private citizens via these means, then that’s an interesting take. Personally, I think a government body may not necessarily have anything to do with such a thing, but private entities with resources could do it. Like some crazed hedge fund dude targeting anti-genocide protesters. These private entities may even get government contracts, so who knows.
In U.S. history civil rights activists were straight up assassinated, and so were U.S. presidents who got too uppity as far as someone else was concerned. Environmental or social justice activists were always targeted or tracked by govt. agencies. The regular person who holds spicy political takes on any ideology isn’t a concern unless they’re in the news or getting attention.
I am not naive about the state of things, but I also don’t think they’re any worse than they’ve been before in terms of govt control over activism. The main problem now is psyops at scale. Countries like China and Russia safeguard themselves from it by having a homogenous culture, which is antithetical to democracies.
Tbh it’s not mass surveillance that adds chilling effects to activist action, but the constant seizing of power and resources by oligarchs. I think in this instance people who want change should become a part of the system, ie the government or its agencies.
If we fool ourselves into thinking the U.S. or any other western state is as bad as current fascists regimes, we’ve lost the psyops war. Can things be better, yes. There’s no way to get that without organizing for change, and creating strong local communities.
I’m pretty sure moving into a administration who plans on mass deportations requiring holding camps, literal work camps for the mentally ill, and the degradation of regulations/rights are all clear signs we are moving in that direction.
I mean come on man, Trump couldn’t have his first pick for AG be approved because he said “We will drag the bodies of our political opponents through the streets” he said that, and that was Trump’s first choice for the most powerful prosecutor in the country.
When the fascists show us who they are WE SHOULD BELIEVE THEM!
Without reference to other nations and countries, what elements of fascism do you believe are missing that makes the label inaccurate or inappropriate
I think the main difference is that people who hold different political opinions are not randomly falling out of windows
The other difference is that you can have protests and still get what you want. Or you can vote and still have the change you voted for count.
If voting didn’t matter at all in the US or other democracies, psyop campaigns wouldn’t be targeting the citizens, but only the leaders or officials, elected or otherwise
When you say “randomly falling out windows,” I think you mean that the state is not assassinating its own citizens to protect the electability of the (small-F) fascist ruling party. That’s a pretty specific line to draw. I’m not sure if that’s what you mean because you continue to cloak your meaning in euphemism and irony.
You say that there are still elections where votes are counted fairly, and that public speech is still permitted. I would suggest that is not the minimum requirement for a fair election or political empowerment. It’s interesting that you suppose that psyops exist and are effective against voters, but that there are still free elections where people are able to enact the changes they have presumably been induced to want.
It sounds very much like you are saying, “yes, while it resembles fascism in every way, real fascism would be the same thing but worse.” You can appreciate I am sure that other people have other standards, and that yours are not really universally accepted. John Kelly gave a very good off-the-cuff definition recently. Rather than presenting my own, I invite you to refute his.
I meant more as in opposition party members or political foes are not routinely disposed of
If people have the standards you claim they do, they sure as hell don’t vote that way.
So I guess a more educated public might help in this case? How do you tell people they have it worse off? Americans are so dumb that they can’t even look at Nordic countries for good examples of how to be.