Apple forced to ditch iPhone lightning charger::Apple confirms new iPhone 15 will have a common USB-C charging port after EU forces it into the change.
Apple forced to ditch iPhone lightning charger::Apple confirms new iPhone 15 will have a common USB-C charging port after EU forces it into the change.
Regulations work. Suck it, predatory businesses. Literally, eat shit.
I’m pretty convinced their plan was to release a USB-C iPhone this year either way.
Their product roadmaps extend far out into the future; these products require a lot of lead time to develop and integrate. They had until the end of 2024 to comply, which means one more release. They started their journey to USB-C several years ago, so it’s not like it wasn’t part of the plan, and they had no reason to hurry up and force it out this year, risking integration issues.
The EU is going to take the credit, but I think the chance for a coincidence here is strong.
They first started using USB c on the macbooks in 2015. There’s no way that it took 8 years to get it ready for the iPhone. In that time they’ve also released several other devices and accessories which have used lightning.
To me this doesn’t point to a planned gradual shift over to USB c but one that was forced by neccesity on the macbook then by regulation on the iPhone.
The narrative around Lightning was always that they’d keep it for 10 years and then move to something new, Schiller even called it “a modern connector for the next decade” when it was announced, and at the time it was better than anything else on the market.
No one who’s been paying attention is surprised that Apple switched this year and not next. I’d love to go dig up my years old comments on Reddit about this but like many of us I deleted my whole history. I had hoped they’d advance the timeline and release the 14 with USBC because of the EU regs, but I’m convinced this was the plan because they waited for the lighting to fulfill its 10 year target (just like with the 30 pin connector) and not until the EU regs actually forced them in 2024.
When the iPad switched to USBC in 2018 it was a foregone conclusion that iPhone would too, and the assumption was always for it to happen in 2023.
How does it take 5 years to integrate the world’s most popular and standardised connector?
Call me a cynic, but maybe they just wanted another five years of selling over priced cables and another five years of controlling another part of the “ecosystem”.
I’m saying it was a choice to ride out the full 10 years with lightning, not a limitation. They tooled up for 10 years of lightning and they stuck to the plan.
Apple produces hardware at a scale not imaginable to mortal people. When they want to use a chip in their phone, they just buy up the chip’s factory’s entire production run for the next few years.
Apple was the only company that had no shortages during the chip troubles of 2020/21/22. That’s because they plan ahead. They have a logistics person at the helm, and it’s very visible.
All of this naturally leads to ridiculous planning cycles.
How does it taste?
Starfuckers, Inc
Why would the 2015 MacBook’s USB-C ports been forced by necessity?
Also remember the outrage when Apple moved form the 30-pin connector to Lightning. People were very upset and Apple promised they wouldn’t be switching ports all the time and it was made to serve them for a really long time… as every accessory with a lightning port just became e-waste. I guess Mother Nature didn’t see that.
I think it’s interesting that you see this as USB-C’s fault.
If Apple had stuck to a standard connector they would have been on usb-c in a year or two anyway and none of that e-waste would exist.
Or if they went back on their word and switched to usb-c from lightning after a couple years, there would also be way less Lightning e-waste. What do you think happens to all those Lightning accessories when someone switches from iPhone to a different device?
Apple’s proprietary Lightning connector is responsible for the e-waste, not USB-C or regulators.
These regulations will stop companies like Apple making proprietary connectors purely for profit that generate all the e-waste in the first place.
Lol, a cable is barely e waste. The power Adapter is where the e waste is, and those usb A blocks can easily still be used, even if you only have usb-C cables lying around. For very little money, you can buy an Adapter from usb-A to C and you can still use them. I don’t get the eWaste argument on copper cables…
There were no good standards when Lightning was released. There were several different USB options… mini, micro, etc, all of which only worked one way and sucked to use. If I remember correctly there was also something related to audio that USB at the time wasn’t good at, which lightning could handle. Hence the removal of the headphone jack.
USB-C was finalized 2 years later so the decade of Lighting e-waste is still on Apple for holding out as long as they did.
Maybe instead of designing a whole new Lightning connector they should have been pioneers and been one of the first to make a USB-C phone.
No it wasn’t. The very first version of USB-C was standardized 2 years later. It didn’t get to feature parity with lightning until Thunderbolt support was added at the 5 year mark.
Lightning has been and still is USB 2.0 (I don’t remember any products with faster speeds)
No one wants a new connector every 2 years. When Lightning was announced the 30-pin connector was in service for almost a decade and they said Lightning was designed for the next decade. So now it’s been a decade and they changed again. I guess we’ll see another new connector sometime around 2033, if USB can keep itself together long enough. It’s fragmentation is a bit of a joke.
If they kept the 30-pin for another year or two they could have been one of the first with USB-C and it would have been good for two decades or more and we wouldn’t be having this discussion
Your downvote count is insane, because you’re right. People on lemmy, just like on reddit, use android and like to feel superior for hating on Apple. That’s basically all it comes down to. Apple introduced a new connector a decade ago, called their shot, and usb-c caught up during that time. Now that Apple is fulfilling their plans everyone who was never going to buy an iPhone anyway is shouting “what took you so long?”
“Hence the removal of the headphone jack.”
What does that have to do with USB vs Lightning? Besides, Lightning to Headphone Jack adapters as well as lightning airpods use a DAC inside the cable.
Boy, some of you are really drinking the Apple koolaid.
As far as I know the fastest charging over lightning even now is 20 Watts which is far too slow for a laptop with a large battery. I suspect that they couldn’t use lightning on the macbooks for that reason.
If their intention was to limit waste then they wouldn’t have continued to produce lightning accessories if the plan was to transition in just a few years
Laptops were never charged with lightning and it makes zero sense that they ever would. It was never necessary and they received a LOT of hate over using USB-C on the laptops because they were extremely early to the party. The exact same hate was heaped on them when they implemented USB before everyone else.
You apparently don’t remember (or care) about how they faced a lot of backlash when they moved from the 30-pin to Lightning on iPhone. They promised accessory manufacturers that they wouldn’t change the iPhone port again for at least 10 years, and we are right at that mark. Other products have been transitioning to USB-C in a somewhat logical order. All of the products that charge with lightning now are iPhone accessories and there is little reason to have different charge ports on products that are meant to be used together.
The only argument that isn’t just pure ignorance seems to boil down to “Apple evil”
Lightning was never on the MacBooks, so that’s not a reason for the MacBooks to move to USB-C. Prior to USB-C MacBooks used MagSafe to charge, which is what the new ones are back to using.
They have a magsafe port and come with a MagSafe cable (which is USB -> MagSafe) but they charge just fine with usb-c. I can’t remember when I last used my MagSafe cable (I think it’s in a box somewhere) because it normally charges while docked and it makes more sense to carry an USB cable on the go.
The person said they were forced by necessity to move the MacBooks to USB-C in 2015 and brought up Lightning as the reason. That’s not even remotely accurate. I don’t see how anything is relevant after that. USB-C as the only ports on laptops was never a necessity, it was a choice they made, which they have since rolled back, further showing it wasn’t a necessity. Having the option to also use USB-C to charge doesn’t mean anything. And as I recall, USB-C is slightly underpowered for charging the high end laptops, so if they were working hard on USB-C, there would be some battery train to cover the gap. Not exactly a selling point for a power delivery system.
This law is more than a decade in the making, the only reason it was on Apples roadmap is because of this law.
The EU doesn’t have to mandate a new connector when something new comes up, it just has to be an open standard, ANY open standard. This is miles better for everyone. And the EU doesn’t force the whole world to adapt their standard, it’s just not economical to produce different versions for different markets, but they are very much allowed to sell whatever to their non EU customers.
If you really want the lightning adapter back, you can ask one of the many people who soldered a usb-c connector in an iphone 12/13/14. If one person can do it, I’m pretty sure Apple can, too.
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Give over. They were passive aggressive as fuck in their statements after the EU mandated it.
I would’ve been too. The EU flexes too hard on some of this stuff. It was obviously on Apple’s roadmap.
I guess if a new/better connector comes along we have to wait for the EU to give everyone permission to move the technology forward? How does this even work going forward?
I like the idea of 1 port for everything, but a regional government effectively mandating what the whole world must use is fucked.
I don’t know any reason why switching to USB-C would’ve been on Apple’s roadmap. Controlling the lighting ecosystem is far too valuable for them. Apple’s refusal to switch to the common USB-C is one of the reasons this law exists in it’s current form.
If it’s all about pumping up Lightning, why did the iPad leave it?
I have to assume the revenue around Lightning falls into the “ Wearables, Home and Accessories” bucket on their earnings report. This whole category makes up about 10% of total sales. This includes Apple Watch, HomePod, AppleTV, AirPods, phone cases, etc. Lightning is a rounding error. The iPhone on its own makes up almost 50% of their sales. They aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot with their cash cow to save some accessory revenue. That makes no sense.
Because Lightning is too slow and low-power for the functionality they felt necessary for the iPad.
You can’t do real video output over USB2.0, charging current is limited, and you can’t effectively use it for data and charging at the same time outside of limited configurations.
Your mistake is overlooking the fact that Lightning is woefully outdated.
iPhones have been able to get away with it this long by doing most everything wirelessly and convincing users like you that it’s somehow better to have a slower, less powerful connector on their phone.
They couldn’t get away with the same limitations on a tablet.
To be clear, I don’t think moving to USB-C is a bad thing. I think governments getting involved to dictate timelines is a bad thing, and I think it was going to happen anyway due to Lightning getting old and the needs we have now, as you outlined with the iPad.
The only reason the EU got involved was because Apple didn’t want to regulate themselves into being non-anti-consumer.
Regulations are only necessary when a market is unable to regulate itself.
The EU is mandating open standards, not specific open standards.
If a new and better connector comes around they are welcome/encouraged to use it. As long as it’s an open standard and not proprietary e-waste generating junk
Theyre not stupid if you read it before writing about it on Lemmy you’d see they’re required to review regularly with stakeholders to agree and amend requirements ‘in line with scientific and technological progress, consumer convenience and environmental developments’
Oh good, bureaucracy… that always produces great results.
You’re trying too hard.
Apple would have implemented USB-C ages ago if they had any intention of ever doing it willingly.
Everything they make uses USB-C except the iphone which uses lightning and funnily enough they get a substantial cut out of every accessory and cable sale.
The EU has a FAQ somewhere addressing this, can’t find it though.
And calling the EU a regional government is underplaying their power and international influence a LOT.
The iPad used to use Lightning, why did they move that over if it’s all about getting a cut of accessory sales?
We saw with the iPad that they took their time, starting with the high end of the market with the Pro and eventually releasing it to all. It took several years.
The iPhone being their biggest volume product, it made sense to do it last. Let people get other USB-C stuff in their house before the iPhone moves so fewer people complain about having to buy all new chargers.
Is the EU not a government over some, but not all of Europe, a region of the larger Eurasia continent? What else would I call them?
Eh, I don’t know Apple’s intentions but this specific design change isn’t that complicated. The lightning port still uses the USB protocol so the firmware will be the same or very similar. The supporting electronics also wouldn’t change much, but at most they’d omit/add a few small passives and slightly reroute that part of the circuit to make things fit together. They’d also have to lock down a large production run of USB ports, but any manufacturer would accommodate a customer as large as Apple. They’d need to test fit it with the new phone chassis but that’s relatively simple as well. Regulatory certification would also be smooth sailing for a change this simple, since most of what’s changing is simply the form factor.
I figure it would take two years before customers would see this design change from the moment engineering was assigned it.
I’m an electrical engineer who works in production if that matters.
I can corroborate this. They weren’t unprepared, but this wasn’t late warning.
Law was approved in 2022.
You say it would take about 2 years and the EU gave companies 24 months, which is all in line…. But it’s only been about 12 months since the directive was approved. Do you think Apple could pivot to get it done in a year if they weren’t already planning it, especially when there was no legal reason to rush it?
I doubt Apple just learned of the pending EU rule 12 months ago as it was passed.
The alternative is to take a gamble that it won’t be approved and then be stuck with phones that weren’t in compliance (ignoring the 24 month grace period) and having the development clock start immediately for future models. I’m sure they saw which way the winds were blowing, knew they had no populist counter argument opposing the change, and decided it was in their best interest to join literally every other manufacturer on the planet in using a standard port.
You know how many fucking lawyers they have? They were well-prepared.
What does that have to do with anything?
You’re right, lawyers have nothing to do with laws.
What are you talking about? I said they didn’t legally need to move to USB-C until the end of 2024. A team of lawyers isn’t required to figure that out. I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.
It’s really hard to say without being personally involved. Two years is a very comfortable amount of time to implement that specific change. The biggest hurdle is passing regulatory testing early enough to begin manufacturing in time to build a large enough stockpile before release. If they really pushed it and threw enough people at it, manufacturing could begin as little as 6 months after starting. But that’s a very risky timeline because about a million things will still go wrong all throughout the process, and “simple” design changes like this are never, ever simple.
I’m impressed if they began production one year after deciding to make the change. The EU directive might’ve been approved roughly a year ago, but Apple might’ve seen writing on the wall and started earlier too. Regardless of context, this is definitely not a >2-3 year process though.
I wasn’t saying they’d take 3 years, but that they would at least use the 2 years to avoid the risk of a rush job. The iPhone is their most important product and I don’t see them putting it at risk to rush something out when there was no requirement to rush.
Maybe they started early, or worked on both in parallel, if they saw the writing on the wall and wanted a hedge. But typically, or maybe I should say historically, Apple hasn’t been one to do something just because someone tells them to, and if forced they would maintain their own vision as long as possible until they had to make the change. I remember years ago reading that they paid a daily fine in their stores for not displaying ‘no smoking’ signs, because they didn’t like how they looked. I want to say this was in England, but it was a long time ago and I couldn’t quickly find an article on it.
Could they?
Yeah probably. USB-C connectors are ubiquitous, I’m certain they could acquire the necessary components in short notice if they had to. From my understanding they essentially did just swap the connector and kept the same USB2.0 controller.
Did they?
I doubt it, they had plenty of notice this was coming and were likely already preparing for it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the second USB-C iPhone release gets a modern controller with USB 3.2 or even 4, and Apple talks it up like they have single-handedly made USB-C fast all by theirselves (and imply that other mobile devices haven’t had the same for far longer)
Only the standard iPhone is running at USB2 speeds. The Pro has a faster controller.
If they were going to do a roll out like the iPads, the Pro would have gotten USB-C first, then the normal iPhone would get it next year. Maybe that’s why the Pro has the better and more modern controller… they were planning on doing that first, but with the EU thing, maybe they just decided to get it all out of the way instead of the phased roll out like they did with iPad.
Why are you getting downvoted 🤔 I’m pretty sure apple would have kept lighting on the “cheap” phones until the complete removal of any port (I assume they kill the port on the “cheap” phone in the next 5 years) and give the pro thunderbolt like they did this year. I’m thinking this, because I bet not even 1% of “cheap” iPhone users uses the port for data transfer (keep in mind that 1% of “cheap” iPhone users are still plenty talking in absolute numbers)
Just because Apple forced their users to switch everything to wireless, doesn’t mean cables are obsolete.
More users would use cable if it was actually decently implemented, like with many Android manufacturers.
Because cable has many advantages over wireless, like having transfer speeds more than 10 times faster.
Yeah totally planned. That’s why it seems like they’ve just jury rigged a new connector onto the USB 2.0 internals.
That might explain the normal iPhone, but not the Pro.
I know you didn’t mean it that way, but that is actually the best solution from a production side, which Cook is. Just change one line in the process. Instead of a lightning port, it’s a usbc port.
It’s a phone. I don’t know why everyone wants 40 Gbps. Not that you’ll ever get unless you pony up for a $100 cable.
With all that said, it was hilarious to see them talk about usb 2 and how 3 is 20x faster because that shit was straight out of 20 years ago.
I know you’re not the same person they replied to, but this is “arguing out of both sides of your mouth.”
It can’t be that “Apple carefully plans out everything years in advance so it had to be USB-C anyway due to the difficulty in adapting a new port” and also that “they do a simple one line change in the production run to swap to USB-C” because these two things are diametrically opposed to one another.
Hey, maybe the production process and internal documentation is so shit that it does in fact take several years in advance to plan out a simple swap of the connector XD
Never said they carefully planned out usb c. All I said was that changing the physical port is the cheapest and most cost effective way of doing it. No need to change the entire module.
It’s all right there. So no idea man
I acknowledged that you weren’t the person making the initial claim right at the beginning of my comment, but the flow of the discussion here is:
A) Initial claim: USB-C was coming anyway because it takes years to integrate this stuff into new devices
B) Counter-argument: If it took them years to integrate this port into the device then why does it appear to be slapped together with shit data speed?
C) Your counter counter-argument: it appears slapped together because it’s a simple one line change in the production process and is very simple
A and C can’t be true because they’re diametrically opposed. If B and C are true then A is false.
I think it’s more that USB 2 speeds at the bare minimum are a really trash value for an $800 phone. I get what you mean, as this will push the “pro” consumers who absolutely must have 4K ProRes RAW video/photo transfers to buy the Pro models, but for real. It is shitty from a consumer perspective regardless.
You get the same speeds on the 15 as lightning. Same power delivery. The Pro got bumped up to usb 3.0. Nothing ground breaking but fast enough to record video to an external source.
The rest is the internet being the internet. Not sure why everyone expected TB4 40 Gbps speeds on a phone 🤷♂️
Oh man you have not followed all of this progress have you? the EU has been pushing for this for a long time now, if this was their planall along Apple could have stated that they planned to do this in the future but that they were waiting for closure of their original connector, but they didn’t, all their communications until this decission was made have been that lightning was not going away. Suddenly, it was their plan all along. It’s… so much like apple to do this and so in line for their fans to eat it up.
They aren’t exactly known for sharing their plans publicly. They do stuff like that all the time to avoid leaking plans of their internal roadmap.
itr’s not about sharing their plans publicly, it’s about their intent being 180 of what they say now. When this was being worked on in the EU, Apple was pretty clearly against it. If their plan was to do it anyway them opposing the forced change would make no sense.
Are people astroturfing here? Seriously? It may be one of the worst place for that, and it looks like a very bad troll.
Huh?
If they were going to switch anyway, they wouldn’t have struggled until the EU had to make regulations around it.
Regulations means the market can’t regulate itself. The market in this case being Apple.
What struggle?
I’m sure the push for non proprietary standards before the latest EU rules had some part to play as well
They had until the beginning of 2024, that is by 2024 USB C had to be the standard, leaving Apple no choice with Iphones introduced in 2023’s fall.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/8/23499754/usb-c-iphone-european-union-legislation-charger-lightning-enforcement-date
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20220413STO27211/usb-type-c-to-become-eu-s-common-charger-by-end-of-2024
Either they changed the date or you’re wrong on this.
You’re right. I stand corrected.
I think they wanted to go to usb-c (as that’s what all their other products use) but they didn’t want to face the backlash from customers when “all their cables and docks had to be changed again”. Luckily for apple the EU gave them a fall guy.
If that was the case apple wouldn’t talk so openly about how that’s bad for the consumer. They want to keep Lightning since they want to control the iPhone accessory ecosystem.
Of course they would, “I’m sorry that all your accessories no longer work guys, it was all the EU’s fault”.
It probably depends on the consumer. Most (older) people I know are always irritated which cable they actually need, so it’s great to just be able to give them one with USB C.
Edit: They often have other devices with USB C anyway (e.g. headphones).