Don’t forget the bison skull mountain in the US. They exterminated the bison population for no other reason than to starve the Indigenous peoples into submission.
“If your hunter gatherer lifestyle is so great why are you starving after we deliberately starved you?”
(Source)
Committing one genocide to further another…
Can you please put the british raj flag instead of India?
That’s the British Raj flag though. The left one is not the Indian Flag.
sure
India was under authoritarian occupation by the bloodthirsty British during its last famine.
Same as Ireland right?, is it really a gotcha moment to say capitalism doesn’t work because sometimes it is installed under an authoritarian system, even though more so socialism is installed under a authoritarian system vast majority of the time
All states are “authoritarian,” the difference is which class is the ruling class. In capitalism, that’s the capitalist class, but in socialism, it’s the working class. The state is simply the instrument by which the ruling class in any given society resolves class conflicts in favor of the ruling class. That’s why in socialist countries, metrics for the working class have skyrocketed, but they largely stagnate or decay in capitalism.
uhh, that was colonialism and not capitalism. /s
inb4 the libs come in here with their downvotes and paragraphs lmbo!
ACKTSHUALLY THO the Irish potato famine was socialism actually. Because see the British were trying to save the Irish FROM socialism, so they HAD to take all the crops. Because, ummm, if they let the Irish keep the crops that they grew, WHICH WERE FOR THE BRITISH, then that was socialism.
Also the Irish did it to themselves they were just too lazy to work. The British were starving too. Because see the famine. And it started in Kansas. JUST LIKE THE SPANISH FLU. So anyway now we have a free and capitalism Ireland like baby Irish Jesus intended.
Glad to have cleared that up mate.
I was under the assumption that the potato famine was caused solely due to crop disease. Do you have sources for the brits stealing their crops? Not doubting it, just want more info.
somehow they stayed away this time. lol
I’ve been wondering if it’s just all the blocking, so I have effectively been blocked by and blocked in response every libtard on Lemmy, or if they have made an exodus to Mastodon or Bluesky or something.
Same here because of the last election and I see it as a blessing
This meme reads as a criticism of capitalism and common anti-communist rhetoric. It doesn’t do any apologia for authoritarians, which is what usually sets off the “libs”
Critism of capitalism and defense of communism is authoritarian to liberals though. After all, to them private property ownership is a human right and not allowing it is an authoritarian impingement on their freedom.
Yeah true. Some ppl around here will happily call anyone a liberal the moment they criticize the CCP though
That’s true, but there’s also more than a few people around here who will insist they aren’t liberals and then when you find out their actual politics they’re just New Deal style liberalism
Depends on how you critique the CPC, for what reasons. If they are from a position entrenched in liberal viewpoints and US state department lines on China, then it’s fair to say they are liberal. However, there are legitimate ways to critique China from the left. They are slow to adopt widespread LGBTQIA+ rights, for example, and while this is improving, I’d personally like it to be going much faster. Saying the CPC is doing organ harvesting is not legitimate critique.
About famine, how far off is the US from it? If their farmers are failing as bad as they say they are, coupled with droughts in various other farming areas around the world, and if Russia is still bombing agriculture in the Ukraine, are we in store for shortages any time soon?
Forced famines are fucked up regardless of state ideology. Shame on the UK and on the USSR.
The 1930s famine wasn’t forced, though. It was a combination of adverse weather conditions leading to lower crop yields, wealthy farmers called kulaks killing their livestock and burning their crops to “resist collectivization,” and some degree of mismanagement. It’s important to recognize that pre-1930s, Eastern Europe had regular famines as well, and that following collectivization the 1930s famine was the last famine outside of World War II (when the Nazis took Ukraine, the USSR’s breadbasket).
Churchill intentionally caused and extended the Bengal Famine, he hated Indians:
I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.
They knowingly took their seed grain.
The Politburo was kept in the dark about how bad the famine was getting:
From: Archive of the President of the Russian Federation. Fond 3, Record Series 40, File 80, Page 58.
Excerpt from the protocol number of the meeting of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist party (Bolsheviks) “Regarding Measures to Prevent Failure to Sow in Ukraine, March 16th, 1932.
The Political Bureau believes that shortage of seed grain in Ukraine is many times worse than what was described in comrade Kosior’s telegram; therefore, the Political Bureau recommends the Central Committee of the Communist party of Ukraine to take all measures within its reach to prevent the threat of failing to sow [field crops] in Ukraine.
Signed: Secretary of the Central Committee – J. STALIN
Letter to Joseph Stalin from Stanislaw Kosior, 1st secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine regarding the course and the perspectives of the sowing campaign in Ukraine, April 26th, 1932.
There are also isolated cases of starvation, and even whole villages [starving]; however, this is only the result of bungling on the local level, deviations [from the party line], especially in regard of kolkhozes. All rumours about “famine” in Ukraine must be unconditionally rejected. The crucial help that was provided for Ukraine will give us the opportunity to eradicate all such outbreaks [of starvation].
Letter from Joseph Stalin to Stanislaw Kosior, 1st secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, April 26th, 1932.
Comrade Kosior!
You must read attached summaries. Judging by this information, it looks like the Soviet authority has ceased to exist in some areas of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Can this be true? Is the situation invillages in Ukraine this bad? Where are the operatives of the OGPU [Joint Main Political Directorate], what are they doing?
Could you verify this information and inform the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist party about taken measures.
Sincerely, J. Stalin
Further, quotas were lowered once the Politburo became aware of the extent of famine:
The low 1932 harvest worsened severe food shortages already widespread in the Soviet Union at least since 1931 and, despite sharply reduced grain exports, made famine likely if not inevitable in 1933.
The official 1932 figures do not unambiguously support the genocide interpretation… the 1932 grain procurement quota, and the amount of grain actually collected, were both much smaller than those of any other year in the 1930s. The Central Committee lowered the planned procurement quota in a 6 May 1932 decree… [which] actually reduced the procurement plan 30 percent. Subsequent decrees also reduced the procurement quotas for most other agricultural products…
Proponents of the genocide argument, however, have minimized or even misconstrued this decree. Mace, for example, describes it as “largely bogus” and ignores not only the extent to which it lowered the procurement quotas but also the fact that even the lowered plan was not fulfilled. Conquest does not mention the decree’s reduction of procurement quotas and asserts Ukrainian officials’ appeals led to the reduction of the Ukrainian grain procurement quota at the Third All-Ukraine Party Conference in July 1932. In fact that conference confirmed the quota set in the 6 May Decree.
— Mark Tauger. (1992). The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933
There was no intentional famine.
The br*tish and the kulaks
There is no such thing as famine. Just forced starvation.
Not communism is bad, it’s bad an asshole in the gov, calling it communism without beeing it, but an fascism. It’s like North Corea, called an communist system, but it isn’t its an fascist dictatorship, with an asshole lider, not the people which gov. This certainly is a bad system, but not worse as capitalism, Its when the extreme right took with the extreme left, than its always deadly for the people. Currently a real communism don’t exist in the worl, because any intention to form it was sabotaged and corrupted by the capitalist elite, they all are more ore less bloody dictatorships.
Some animals are more equal than others
This is wrong, plainly. Fascism is a thoroughly capitalist ideology, no existing socialist state can be classified as fascist. The idea that socialism was simply sabotaged by “elites” ignores the material reality that socialism brought tremendous democratization, decreased disparity, and massive improvements in life metrics for the working class wherever it has been implemented. This is just centrist meandering more than anything.
As a side-note, Animal Farm is chiefly about how much Orwell despises the working class and believes them to be beyond stupid and incapable of governing themselves, destined to be taken advantage of no matter the system. Read A Critical Read of Animal Farm for more on this, Orwell was a homophobic, anti-semetic anti-communist fed that reported on suspected communists to British intelligence.
idk if you’re trying to be serious or not. Regardless I’m not going to take you as such.
The notion of dictatorship in a sense of a single person running things is deeply unserious. As Anna Louise Strong puts it in This Soviet World:
Define communism and fascism. And read an actual political book instead of the shit that they literally teach you when you’re a preteen (animal farm/1984), they teach it to you then cuz ur too young to handle the real shit, but now you can.
what
10/10 no noytes
Aaahhh the Yankees with their oversimplifications of complicated subjects. Communism good, mmmmm, yummiiiee, nothing bad about it, cannot do anything wrong, because it’s all so simple.
Things like these aren’t that simple and any time you claim it is, you’re wrong
Least incoherent anti-communist
I think it’s hilarious that you associate “communism good” with the USA, the country that quite possibly hates communism the most.
Literally no where did they say or suggest that
The meme is criticizing the fact that defenders of capitalism and/or haters of communism are often hypocritical in their argumentation. I would argue this meme isn’t even strictly pro-communist. Also yankees hate communism more than anyone lol
🤡
Oversimplification is to say communism is bad because it causes starvation LUL.
