- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
This is absolutely nothing new. This just feels like the hundredth lecture.
At one point, I did care but right now, I kind of don’t. Because people are largely going to gravitate themselves to whatever tastes good to them. It is just, they need to stop suing food companies and fast food joints for the reason that they’ve gotten fat when it was their lack of self-discipline and self-control that got them there.
When, they’ve had access to this kind of information for well over 30+ years. No excuses now.
Why do I feel like people bring these posts up so they can feel better about themselves by downvoting anyone who disagrees? Hm…
Why do I feel like people bring these posts up so they can feel better about themselves by downvoting anyone who disagrees? Hm…
Because you enjoy vice signaling, apparently?
Why do I feel like people bring these posts up so they can feel better about themselves by downvoting anyone who disagrees? Hm…
I guess because you lack empathy and refuse to acknowledge that reality is probably more nuanced than your singular lived experience?
Who is actually trying to make themselves feel better here: the person who’s posturing as simply better than others because you don’t struggle with your weight? Or the people down voting you because they recognize there are a myriad of other factors that might cause a person to struggle with eating healthy including:<br> -food deserts<br> -physical or mental disabilities<br> -lack of time (some people are legit out there working 2 or 3 jobs)<br> -inadequate cooking spaces (especially cheap apartments in big cities)
I wake up every day between 4 and 5 am. Get myself (ready for work) and my kids (ready for school) by 6:30 am. Drop the kiddos off at school, wife off at work, and I’m usually back home by 7:30. Then I walk my dog until 8 am, and finally I have an hour to myself before I start work at 9–usually spent cleaning. I work until 5 pm, then go pick up the kids and wife to be back home by 6 pm. We have two hours now as a family, before the kids bedtime at 8 pm. Cooking is an option if you want to hog up most of the two hours with cooking, eating, and cleaning. Otherwise, we can eat fast food during the drive and maybe watch a movie together when we get home. Beside that, I walk the dog again at about 8:30 pm and I’m in bed by 9 pm. The wife and I might stay up until nearly 10 pm if we’re watching a show.
There’s not a lot of time to do much besides fast food.
There are absolutely millions in poverty in developed countries like the US who do not have any ability to buy fresh food.
Being able to eat healthily is a privilege in 2025, which is fucking disgusting, but absolutely true.
There are towns in America where the only place for a hundred miles they can buy food is a dollar store. These shops don’t typically stock anything fresh or particularly healthy.
The people there will be too poor to live anywhere else and might be working multiple jobs (as is typical in American poverty) so will not have time/energy to attempt to grow anything themselves
We are lucky that we can eat healthily, but don’t let yourself think that’s a choice everyone gets
Rural dwelling pedant here: Dollar General is not a dollar store. Dollar Tree is, but Dollar General is a garbage store with regular-ass prices. They only stock shit and the prices are often higher than regular grocery stores.
It’s the only food store my town has and it sucks so bad. At least Dollar Stores are affordable.
What do you mean there are no such things as farmer’s markets?
What do you mean there are no such things as other grocery chains that isn’t Wal-Mart, Kroger .etc?
Now I know there are maybe some small towns with a Dollar General or a Dollar Tree in them, but that is discrediting the fact that there are still alternatives here and there. Don’t pretend they don’t exist.
Besides, why the fuck would anyone want to live in the smack of no where? Haven, Kansas is one of those places, don’t be surprised.
What world do you live in where farmers markets are affordable? It’s just an outdoor Whole Foods.
What do you mean there are no such things as farmer’s markets?
What do you mean there are no such things as other grocery chains that isn’t Wal-Mart, Kroger .etc?
Exactly that, it’s all in the article.
The only shop is a dollar store.
All these things you expect are absolutely not a given everywhere.
Besides, why the fuck would anyone want to live in the smack of no where?
Predominantly because they don’t have the wealth or income necessary to live anywhere else in most cases. Y’know because of the poverty…?
It’s about access. You can still have stores around and still be in a food desert. I did research on this while in grad school. You’re discounting indigent populations ability to navigate to stores with fresh food. Imagine you’re a single mom with 2 kids. How easy is it for you to get to the Walmart that is 4 miles away by bus?
Do you expect people to have availability to go to the farmers market on Saturday morning? They would have to make a coordinated effort to travel with a kid, or find coverage so they could go to the farmers market. Do you think all small towns have easily accessible farmers markets that are priced in a way that the less fortunate can afford the produce?
Beyond that, folks tend to gravitate towards easily accessible or ready made food (e.g., microwaveable). You’re also assuming that everyone has familiarity with those ingredients and has bandwidth/willing to learn to cook. While most people do learn at some point, it can still be a barrier.
When you say “why would someone want to live in the middle of nowhere,” some people don’t have a choice and have geographic/work/family/community ties in small towns that lack resources.
Your response is flippant and disregards the reality of the situation.
I consider this to be victim blaming. This garbage is designed to be addictive. The mass advertising is akin to cigarette commercials. They’re associating* junk food with various emotion, sexuality (Coca Cola commercials especially), special events, holidays, sports sponsorships, and more. It’s another capitalist evil entirely driven by greed.
So it’s the individuals fault for eating the food shoved in their faces?
If they have easily accessible healthier options, kinda.
Is healthy food shoved into people’s faces? You see giant signs on highways for healthy restaurants? Is the cheapest food healthy? Come on…
Personal responsibility absolutely plays a role here.
I know you certainly need it to.
I mean, I feel like the argument about food deserts and poverty and such has some validity. But otoh, I have known many overweight people in my life with good jobs and plenty of options and opportunities to buy real food, and they don’t do it. And imma say that’s their fault.
It’s like the two things can be true at once without conflicting – but America would have to be huge at that point, and filled with hundreds of millions of people of vastly different economic standing, but it’s possible. Can you imagine?~
Of course you’ll say that; it fits your narrative. Having money doesn’t negate the accessibility and promotion of ultra processed food. A person can have a good job and make plenty of money, but not have time or effort to cook at home or stick to a specific plan. Some people may have health conditions that make them fat like thyroid issues or hell even depression which circularly makes people less likely to eat healthier. Regardless, UPF is the easiest to acquire, purposefully addictive and super cheap not unlike any other addictive substance.
The real issue is society has created these problems, provided the lucrative solutions and brainwashed people like you into blaming the victims because your experience isn’t like theirs.
The point is that they often do not have those options due to availability, cost, access, etc.
That’s why I said easily accessible.
I think the point is that they also often do.
Yes it partially is and I’m so sick of people denying that fact. Nobody ever has put a gun to your head and demanded you go to McDonalds and order a bunch of things from the menu.
You live alone, in your home, with all of this food. Who is the one constantly decided to eat it at their own discretion? YOU! Nobody else! YOU!
Stop detouring accountability and responsibility.
And I know what you’re going to bring up next because I’ve heard it before “BUT BUT THE SUGAR! THE ADDITIVES! THE ADDICTION!” blah blah. Sure, those are a factor but it isn’t like the food themselves have the same kind of chemicals you’d find in things like drugs, cigarettes and alcohol. Those are two huge differences.
But okay whatever, keep blindly blaming the food for how you got 400 pounds one day after the next. Keep believing that half-ass narrative.
Sure, those are a factor but it isn’t like the food themselves have the same kind of chemicals you’d find in things like drugs, cigarettes and alcohol. Those are two huge differences.
You can completely stop those things. You can’t stop eating.
There’s definitely an element of personal responsibility however it’s not always as simple as that. Ultra-processed foods are cheap, have long shelf lives and can be quick and easy to prepare. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to go on a diet to avoid UPF as much as possible, but it’s way more expensive, takes a lot more effort to cook everything from scratch, and generally doesn’t last long at home. For a lot people, they don’t have the luxury or time to manage such a diet.
Some people are more susceptible to addiction than others. For some, having a pack of biscuits or doughnuts in the house would be torture and would have to eat the lot if they’re there, where as for others they wouldn’t even think about it at all and probably forget they exist. Of course, people need to take that responsibility and not buy them, but you can say that about any addict.
if you’ve ever tried to go on a diet to avoid UPF as much as possible
I have to say, this idea that it is so much harder and more expensive to cook real food is pretty bullshit.
As an example, I had a friend in college who had a recipie he ate almost every night for dinner: one can of beans, one can of diced tomatoes. Put in bowl, stir, microwave, eat. He called it… Beans and Tomatos.
Another friend ate (still eats?) the same breakfast for years. His recipie? Oatmeal. Period.
Both these options are easy and quick to make, extremely cheap, and shelf stable. I want to be gracious to people’s individual struggles with things like depression and addiction and whatnot… But seriously, from an objective standpoint, this is not at all difficult.
As an example, I had a friend in college who had a recipie he ate almost every night for dinner: one can of beans, one can of diced tomatoes. Put in bowl, stir, microwave, eat. He called it… Beans and Tomatos.
Yeah that’s not a realistic meal. I’m talking about cooking proper balanced, healthy (although not always!) and tasty meals that are suitable for a family. The prep alone can take just as much time as it can to smash some beige oven food in the oven for 20mins at 180C.
Another friend ate (still eats?) the same breakfast for years. His recipie? Oatmeal. Period.
I do this too. I make it for my kids, throw in some frozen blueberries, sprinkle with chia seeds and add a small dollop of biscoff or golden syrup. Although it’s not that much effort, it’s still quite a bit more than making a bowl of cereal, especially when cleaning the saucepan after as porridge is a bitch to clean once it’s started to cool.
Cost wise it absolutely is more expensive. Every substitute product I get that’s UPF free costs significantly more. I’d say it added about 20% to our weekly grocery costs trying significantly reduce it.
So a gun to the head at the McDonald’s counter isn’t realistic, but what is realistic is an empty belly and a choice between unhealthy, cheap food and further hunger. I find it very easy to imagine that scenario, because I’ve been in it. Have you? Or can you imagine how a person could be?
I, personally, have been hungry in the past and eaten at McDonalds. After I did that, my first thought was “I’m an idiot, why did I do that?”
Yes, people do need to take some personal responsibility, but also corporations engineering products that are unhealthy and addictive and marketers spending billions to convince people its good stuff… is not a great system.
Why does our environment need to be so adversarial?
This is a reasonable question, but also, I don’t feel like my environment is all that adversarial most of the time. The corporations can go ahead and develop their products, and I will continue to not buy them - same as I don’t buy cigarettes. And I can’t remember the last time I say, eg, a Doritos commercial, since I have ad blockers on my browsers and don’t watch cable tv or listen to radio stations almost ever. I would say that the most adversarial aspect of my environment is the fact that I have to drive most places to get anywhere, and when I drive, I drive past Taco Bell. And that’s a whole thing.
Have the day you deserve.
I will and it’ll be better than yours.
Accessibility to healthy food options is a global problem.
This is way beyond the scope of just Obesity you seemed to be upset about.
Be happy you live somewhere where healthy options are available but please take that stick out of your arse and realise how fortunate you are for it. And don’t start a just move argument because if you are even a little social conscious you understand poor people do not have the luxury to move.
Can we stop bitching about UPF? They are tasty, so you eat a lot of them and get fat. Simple as that.
The definition itself is stupid. Bread is ultra processed. Protein powder is ultra processed. Can we focus on calory-density and taste?
Also as someone with ADHD I regularly forget to eat lunch. If I couldn’t eat 2 pizzas for dinner, I would loose even more weight. This propaganda about good and bad foods has kept me underweight for most of my life.
What a bizarre take
That’s the thing. It’s not as simple as that. Same amount of calories is going to hit differently between UPF and low or unprocessed. And what in some places is called bread is in other places legally defined as cake or rubber squeaky toy.
It’s a huge issue to a very select demographic known as “People who are aren’t you.”
The calories hit basically the same. The carbs might be closer to sugar and combined with the missing fiber you’ll get a big insulin spike. Gotta watch out for those to not build resistance.
But there is this obsession with the “chemicals” like the Red dye 40 scare recently. Those are like 0.5% of the problem, but distract from the real problem of too many calories.
The point at which you should care about Red40 is when you’re a professional athlete or bodybuilder on contest prep. No normal human has health issues from these “chemicals” (allergies notwithstanding) anywhere comparable to the issues of too many calories.
Edit: As a German I do agree that American “Bread” should be classified and sold as dishwashing sponges.
Nobody is talking about food dye.
Ultra-processed food, particularly carbohydrates, is digested differently and causes objectively sharper glucose spikes which do harm to your organs and body over time, even if you’re not diabetic. But if you have any chance of developing diabetes, this effect will get much worse.
If eating two pizzas every night helps compensate for your ADHD, that’s fine, but you need to talk to your doctor about what long-term consequences that will have on your body or consider different methods of managing your ADHD if your doctor predictably says that’s a bad idea. You are not trapped in your way of living, you are comfortable in your way of living. And you most definitely should not speak for everyone.
This isn’t propaganda and your eating problems with ADHD are your own. Stop skipping lunch instead of eating 2 pizzas for dinner and blaming UPF articles. Plenty of us have ADHD
Over 70% of America is overweight and UPFs are one of the primary drivers of that
No, that’s the current problem. Growing up my parents believed that a vegetarian diet of 80% vegetables was healthy. While I probably got all the micro nutrients I could not physically fit the needed amount of calories in the form of vegetables into my stomach.
Sounds like you needed more healthy oils in your diet, not UPFs.
The primary driver is eating too much. There are people who are starving but we’re supposed to act like the ones who overindulge are the victims? Get real.
No, it’s scientifically proven that eating too much isn’t necessarily the problem; rather, it’s the quality of the food you consume that determines obesity. If you eat too much unprocessed food, you won’t gain as much weight as you would from eating processed food.
Many Americans visit Europe and are amazed that they can eat a lot without gaining weight.
The human body simply cannot process processed food. It’s simply unnatural.
Can we stop bitching about UPF? They are tasty, so you eat a lot of them and get fat. Simple as that.
That’s literally the issue? They’re engineered that way on purpose so you eat more and more of it in the cheapest way possible. They’re calorie dense but don’t fill you up the same as as non-ultra processed foods.
The definition itself is stupid. Bread is ultra processed. Protein powder is ultra processed.
That’s not the problem with the definition, it’s the problem that most supermarket bread is ultra processed.
It’s driving obesity and causing a whole host of health problems.
*calorie
*lose
Also as someone with ADHD
Create and maintain a regular daily routine, with the power of the expectations of others, if necessary.
This propaganda about good and bad foods has kept me underweight for most of my life.
Your failure to appropriately manage your ADHD has kept you underweight. Unless you are literally on death’s door, no one with any sense would tell you the solution to your problem is to eat two pizzas every night.
Here are some solutions.
If you don’t have a lot of freezer space, go buy one. You can get a model that holds a lot of food and is the same side as a kitchen chair. Costs about the same as a week’s worth of pizzas.
It takes the same amount of time to cook ten portions as it does to cook one. I like to make a huge pot of chili or stew or soup and freeze it in pint size containers. Five minutes to cook in the microwave. A big pan of lasagna will give you a dozen meals. Or you can cook a whole roast chicken on Sunday and eat it all week. Chicken and rice on Sunday, chicken tacos on Monday, green salad with chicken on Tuesday…
This is great advice. Just be careful not to heat it back up in a plastic container. Dump it into glass or ceramic before reheating.
Don’t get me wrong, I do mealprep, just forget or don’t have time for lunch some days. Then I eat “junkfood” because I can’t eat 2000 calories in one go, when I eat rice and lentils.
Not being able to eat 2000 calories in a sitting is a feature, not a flaw of healthy eating. Set a reminder to eat lunch, or just meal prep your snacks.
Are you medicated for your ADHD?
I really should get a refill XD
How ironic that you’re defending ultra processed food when you’re benefiting from a medication’s side effect. Aside from that, being skinny isn’t necessarily healthy.
What? I’m trying to gain weight. The meds help me remember to eat.
And stimulants cause weight loss. I’m surprised you didn’t know that…
Bread and pizza are not per se ultra processed. They can be depending on how you bought them.
Right like an apple is a plant. Harvesting, washing, slicing, and cooking it into a pie in your own kitchen is technically processing it, but it’s still a whole food as the slices are in their whole unaltered form.
Taking millions of apples, grinding them, emulsifying them and separating them into constituent components, enzymatically pre-digesting them then pressing that concoction into a mould shaped vaguely like apple slices and adding in a barrage of artificial flavors and sweeteners to make it resemble the taste of apple pie? These apples have been ultra processed. It’s done for the sake of corporate profit. Pies made in this fashion make more product per ingredient and are longer lasting on the shelf.
Research is showing foods like this are making us fat not just because they’re tasty and we naturally binge, but because they’re literally interfering with our body’s ability to self regulate hormonally.
The calories from these foods, while not breaking the laws of physics or anything, also come with baggage. The food is already extensively broken down by mechanical and chemical processes; things that our teeth and gut normally have to do. The result if you eat them often is having a bunch of meals that hits your system fast, basically like a runner’s energy gel packet. It’s taken us a long time to discover but research is indicating that this is inherently very bad for us.
This propaganda about good and bad foods has kept me underweight for most of my life.
That all being said, I agree with you, and I expect all of the nuance around this to get twisted and lost into yet another bead in the endless string of worthless diet fads and hacks that nobody can stick to and do more harm than good. I literally already see “wholesome” aisles popping up in some stores where they use all the same harmful processes to make the food but game their ingredients list to only be things that people can pronounce.
The definition itself is stupid.
I am still waiting for someone to standardize a definition that passes scientific rigor. The definition right now feels like “You’ll know it when you see it”. We’ve done a lot of stuff to this heavily processed item but it doesn’t count, but then this minimally processed one does… When will the focus shift to the specific processes themselves that are causing issues and not a generic ‘feeling’ that some food or another has reached the point that it is probably not good for you.
Right now these studies are just “Food we personally feel like maybe might be bad for you proven bad” which is usually true but also not really useful. I feel like some day I’ll wake up to an expose on how the whole thing is a large scale ad for the Paleo diet.
Check out the school lunch law that California passed recently, it has a pretty robust definition and even includes a list of exceptions for things that are ultra-processed but are considered worth it
It’s probably going to form the basis of a lot of research and policy going forward
We can use the glycemic index for the insulin spikes and calorie density for how much you can fit. But the taste isn’t really measured I think.
