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- cross-posted to:
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If that situation was exactly the same, but the armed men were black, we’d be having an entirely different conversation, and words like self-defense wouldn’t be part of it, and words like predators would be.
YSK: if ICE can get away with murdering Renee, then they can get away with murdering all of us.
YSK, ICE is starting to murder all of us.
White lives no longer considered sacred? Who could have seen that coming??
It’s no longer Black Lives Matter or White Lives Matter, it’s All Lives Matter, and they don’t get to murder us with impunity, and dismiss it with a disingenuous press conference.
It’s not about race, politics, gender, national origin, sexual orientation, etc. it’s ONLY about Rich vs Poor, and these are their hired hit squads.
If the Sociopathic Oligarchs don’t abandon their Trickle Down Economics, and replace it with Trickle Up Economics, we will spontaneously shift to Robin Hood Economics, and that usually comes accompanied by guillotines and such. They won’t like that at all.
I’m aware.
This is the exact moment the 2nd amendment was meant for. Now behold ! Literally 0 of the 2nd amendment guys will do anything about it…
Because the NRA and decades of right wing gun culture have convinced Americans that the 2A is about their right to own firearms.
The 2A very clearly is about the right for armed people to gather together and use violence to protect their communities.
I’m more curious what those fellas out in the boonies yelling we don’t want ANY government and stockpile ammo and train and such are thinking.
But I guess some some of their interests align so…
They are happy that the government is finally killing libs. It’s even more fun that it was obviously MURDER, and they are going to get away with it.
They realize that this brings them one step closer to the day when Trump says the gloves are off, and he’ll pardon anyone who “stops” a liberal, and they can finally start settling scores on their personal list of enemies with impunity.
Right. But after that they become the target. They don’t want any government and Trump wants total power.
But that’s step 2, maybe 3. They can’t calculate that far ahead. Tic Tac Toe is challenging for these people.
That was my Dad.
He was a lifelong republican who listened to Rush Limbaugh and was terrified of Immigrants. Literally thought Obama was the literal antichrist. Built a bunker and went “off grid” to avoid societal collapse.
Those people’s lives are based only on fear. Anything unknown to them is to be distrusted, feared, or destroyed. If this same shit happened when Dad was alive and youthful, he probably would have been wearing an ICE vest.
One of them just did. This is what they think 2A is for: eliminating those they hate.
2A assholes are the biggest pussies I ever hear yammering about their gun collection.
As “I did a thing” says, they’re just nerds. But they nerd about weapons that actually kill people, instead of anything cool or useful.
Naw man, nerds don’t salivate hoping that someone will break into their house in the middle of the night so they can throw 20 sided dice at them.
And the nuts are usually total cowards living in fear.
There are responsible gun owners. In the IS you pretty much need one.
It’s time for those well organised militias, people. Stop yelling “impeach him”. You’re way past that stage (which would require a functional democracy).
Perhaps if you want to protect your own rights… you should have your own gun, and not depend on others to do it for you.
OK so, benefit of the doubt.
You know that statement wasnt asking for protection right?
2nd amendment isn’t just for the 2nd amendment guys. Attacking gun rights when the left will likely need them in the coming years is short sighted.
To attempt satire by saying that a right wing facist advocating for gun rights, is also expected to advocate for my rights is weakness in the face of aggression.
The right doesn’t laugh at the satire, they laugh at you. You undermine your own defense with others on the left.
TL;DR;
Your reply doesn’t make sense because it seems you didn’t understand what was said. (intentionally or unintentionally)
Ah, so you just picked a subject that was gun related but not actually related to the reply, to be angry about.
That could still be you missing the point accidentally i suppose.
OK, how about i lay out what was said, and you can see how your reply doesn’t relate to it at all.
This is the exact moment the 2nd amendment was meant for. Now behold ! Literally 0 of the 2nd amendment guys will do anything about it…
Translation:
The 2nd amendment people are loud about protecting their right to guns, a large part of which is the need for said guns to be available in the case of a corrupt government arising that would require armed resistance, a “well regulated militia” , so to speak.
And yet here we are with the government shooting civilians in the streets and the 2nd amendment people are nowhere to be seen.
So, let check you reply for relevance against the original statement:
2nd amendment isn’t just for the 2nd amendment guys. Attacking gun rights when the left will likely need them in the coming years is short sighted.
Nobody was attacking gun rights.
To attempt satire by saying that a right wing facist advocating for gun rights, is also expected to advocate for my rights is weakness in the face of aggression.
Nobody mentioned fascists or requiring anyone to advocate for anyone else’s rights.
The right doesn’t laugh at the satire, they laugh at you.
I’m not sure how this relates to either the original message you responded to, or your reply to it.
I will say however that a basic level of reading comprehension and good faith (the latter more than the former) would be required before i personally cared about someone’s opinion of me, laughter included.
You undermine your own defense with others on the left.
As we’ve established above, this is also unrelated.
Also, “anybody who doesn’t agree with me is a lefty” is a weak foundation for both conversation and understanding.
TL;DR;
Your reply doesn’t make sense because it seems you didn’t understand what was said. (intentionally or unintentionally)
You don’t seem to understand a lot of my reply, let’s see if we can clear some stuff
Nobody mentioned fascists or requiring anyone to advocate for anyone else’s rights.
The post was complaining about the 2nd amendment folks not getting upset that ICE was treading on people’s rights… Why would they? Why would you expect any other group to defend your rights.
I’m not sure how this relates to either the original message you responded to, or your reply to it.
You don’t seem to understand what satire is. Either the original poster was truly upset the 2nd amendment folks were not defending other people’s rights. Or he was trying to make a satirical point outlining that 2nd Amendment people had no intention of defending people’s rights and just wanted guns. I think given the context it is the latter. Satire is great when trying to convince others that the other party is wrong I.E. Gun rights advocates were possibly lying
I will say however that a basic level of reading comprehension and good faith (the latter more than the former) would be required before i personally cared about someone’s opinion of me, laughter included.
… Ok
As we’ve established above, this is also unrelated.
I’m simply pointing out that when there is need on the left to defend yourselves with firearms you’ve undermined your case. Look up videos with armed protesters or what the Black Panthers are doing to repel ICE. The police and ICE are a lot less willing to deploy excessive force or even to engage with armed individuals.
Also, “anybody who doesn’t agree with me is a lefty” is a weak foundation for both conversation and understanding.
I literally quoted Carl Marx what makes you think I’m not on the left? Go left enough and guns are back on the table.
You don’t seem to understand a lot of my reply, let’s see if we can clear some stuff
I would argue i understood your reply fine, i wasn’t arguing against the merit (or lack thereof) of your points, only that they weren’t related to the message you were replying to.
The post was complaining about the 2nd amendment folks not getting upset that ICE was treading on people’s rights
Not really, i already provided a rough translation, it seems we aren’t going to agree on interpretation so let’s just agree to disagree on this one.
… Why would they? Why would you expect any other group to defend your rights.
A somewhat valid point… in a situation where it applies, alas, it does not in this case.
You don’t seem to understand what satire is.
I understand the post was satire, with an edge of actual outrage, or at least that’s my interpretation.
Given that you also seem to recognise it as satire, it seems odd you’d go out of your way to reply in such a serious tone, but you do you.
Even more strange is that you’d argue against positions never taken, but we’ve already been over that.
Either the original poster was truly upset the 2nd amendment folks were not defending other people’s rights. Or he was trying to make a satirical point outlining that 2nd Amendment people had no intention of defending people’s rights and just wanted guns. I think given the context it is the latter. Satire is great when trying to convince others that the other party is wrong I.E. Gun rights advocates were possibly lying
All of that is still based on an points never raised in the original reply, see my original translation.
I’m simply pointing out that when there is need on the left to defend yourselves with firearms you’ve undermined your case. Look up videos with armed protesters or what the Black Panthers are doing to repel ICE. The police and ICE are a lot less willing to deploy excessive force or even to engage with armed individuals.
That’s a more complicated discussion and i don’t disagree on some of those points, but it still doesn’t apply here because there was no reference to defense of gun rights, simply pointing out the hypocrisy of using a position to argue that you wouldn’t take in the actual situation, see my original translation.
I literally quoted Carl Marx what makes you think I’m not on the left? Go left enough and guns are back on the table.
I made no assumption of your place on the political spectrum, i stand by my original reply.
Though i will concede i did make it seem like it was aimed at you directly and that was not my intention, my bad.
Who attacked gun rights? The guy making fun of hypocrites?
Wow, that is a long way to say 2nd amendment nutters support ICE.
Guns have always been the problem and have never been the solution.
I am sure all the people dead from the proliferation of guns to satisfy corporate profits appreciate your advocacy for more death.
I hope you enjoy the taste of boot leather.
If you’re an American citizen than you (yes you) have gun rights too. If you feel the need to step up, by all means
I am very luckily not one of them, but I support this message. When Trump was elected I told all my american friends “Get guns. Now”
None of them listened. I really hope it won’t come back to bite them…
For real. 2016 was a whole decade ago! Imagine the gear and skills they could have developed!
I think a lot of people consider it overkill or just a conservative thing. But no it’s for everyone! Just like you don’t need to be a “car person” to use a car or a “tech person” to use a phone, you don’t need to be a “gun person” to have adequate equipment and skills. And just because you have the option to use guns doesn’t mean peaceful change isn’t an option
But just like you can’t expect others to speak or protest on your behalf you can’t just say “everyone else with guns should do something”
this needs to be the moment, everyone. this cannot be tolerated. it’s long been the moment, but for the love of everything: killing us in the streets can’t be ignored.
It’s insane if this doesn’t set off huge FIGHT BACK… yes, I understand people might be killed in the protest.
Trump is salivating at the prospect of implementing martial law. There’s still too many people that support this shit for any violent action to amount to anything more than empty slaughter.
He’d rather we just lay down and let him do whatever he wants
Murderers! Murderers, murderers, Nazi fucking murderers! Where’s the fucking tipping point? Where’s the point of no return? Subhuman fucking murderous filth!
Definitely should be a HUGE kick in the ass for powerful protests.
So all you have to do to murder someone is put yourself within striking distance of their moving vehicle while brandishing a weapon. Once they try to flee you can shoot them and claim self defense.
Place yourself in front of the vehicle. Refuse to move. Do not step aside. When the car moves toward the officer, claim it’s attempted murder (or whatever hyperbolic statement), and immediately bring deadly force to bear. Doesn’t matter if the offender has literally done nothing wrong to warrant deadly force.
Ice cold murderers, snow should not be red.
Is this one instance or is this a move towards becoming the SS?
ICE is responsible for other deaths.
I’ll preface this by saying I don’t like how this situation went down.
But I know it’s going to spark a ton of debate on use of force and potential reforms to it’s use. With that in mind it helps if you know what the way it’s supposed to work from a legal perspective. So here’s some basic stuff I found. In this case the person shot being in a vehicle complicates this a bit compared to a face to face encounter.
I might make this a separate YSK post.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_force_continuum
https://legalclarity.org/what-is-the-force-continuum-and-how-is-it-used/
get a person to make your poster. down with the slop.
Brown people: “Oh now you care?!?!”
Isn’t this in the same city that started the Black Lives Matter movement?
Edit: Actually the movement predated the George Floyd killing nearby, but that killing started nationwide protests and increased the size of the movement
She was shot literally a mile from where George Floyd died.
Fuck off.
Oh, did the reality of the situation set you off? Maybe do more to vote instead of protesting a vote next time.
Well done, you fell for the divide and conquer tactics.
Honestly, yes (besides the fraction of kind-hearted people who see everyone else as people too), but who cares. If the white American man sees that the government was always against him as well in such an obvious manner, he might do something.
