A hell of a lot more than sit on their hands and ask for more donations to get people to pay them to maybe consider not sitting on their hands. They do, in fact, still hold political office and power, they could fucking use it for anything other than lining their own pockets as crisis profiteers, which is nigh the only fucking thing I see 99% of them doing.
They can whine and protest, which they’ve been doing. Literally what else do you expect besides them to hold the country hostage via the debt ceiling or shutdown? (And, I might point out the Dems are in fact threatening a shutdown unless changes are made to ICE.)
They could be introducing and proposing bills, they could be voting against things rather than falling in line, they could do whatever they could to obstruct and slow things, instead they’re all just playing respectability politics and campaigning, don’t act like these capitalist fucks are looking out for anyone other than themselves. I want a little less conversation and a little more action.
Democrats have voted against almost every significant bill so far.
What would proposing bills do?
They’ve been doing the obstruction. You’ve forgotten Hakeem Jefferies’ record setting filibuster because it doesn’t make a lick of difference; “oh yay, the bill was stalled for two days! Mighty victory!”
The reality is that the Democrats are essentially powerless until the midterms and unfortunately, reality doesn’t change because you wish it were otherwise.
I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not, but do what is an opposition party is supposed to do? If Republicans love to be a thorn on the side despite being the minority in government before, by obstructionism, why can’t Democrats do the same despite having the minority?
The only major thing Republicans have been able to do is win minor concessions by threatening to effectively nuke the country. Democrats are not willing to hold the country hostage in the same manner because there are incredible consequences if the bluff is called. (A prolonged government shutdown stops poor people from eating, sick people from getting medical treatment etc. A refusal to lift the debt ceiling would place America in crippling debt and throw the world into a major financial crisis.)
During Biden’s term, Republicans looked much stronger because the Supreme court had 6 Conservatives and the Democrats only had 50 seats in the Senate which included Manchin and Sinema. The Democrats have none of that leverage this time.
Democrats are trading long term consequences for short term ones. Prolonged government shut down could do those you mentioned, but since Lemmy love the trolley problem so much, need I remind that those are short term pains compared to enabling fascism to take over later down the line? Because when have fascists ever let go of power? And I’m talking about the state of the US government now, not during Biden’s term. Democrats caving in in the previous shutdown doesn’t even look genuine. The Democratic politicians who voted with Republicans just so happened that their terms won’t be up soon, or are about to retire anyway.
Just look at other countries and the opposition parties do their job as opposition, namely in South Korea and Brazil. They are punishing insurrectionists who tried to subvert democracy. I find that Americans are sedated and still wondering if they are in fascism or not.
need I remind that those are short term pains compared to enabling fascism to take over later down the line?
These actions don’t make fascism less likely though.
Fascism thrives on emergencies and suffering, taking away food and medical from millions would do this effectively.
Even worse, if the Democrats messed with the debt ceiling it would fundamentally cripple any future non fascist government’s ability to fix problems.
Good idea, look at South Korea and Brazil. They have been able to do things because the of popular legislation and/or the judiciary, not because a minority party obstructed normal legislation. That’s the exact opposite of what you are proposing. What those examples demonstrate is the importance of winning elections, not about causing havoc as the opposition party.
The then South Korean opposition wasn’t in power at the time, and yet they spearheaded the impeachment and eventual arrest and prosecution of their previous wannabe dictator, who insurrected a coup to prevent him being impeached. Brazil got lucky that their Brazilian Supreme Court was found to be corrupt and aligned with the previous authoritarian Bolsonaro, which led to the replacement of the judges. The new judges along with the other branches of government and opposition prosecuted Bolsonaro.
Brazil and SK opposition prosecuted their dictators to the fullest authority of their laws. The US? They’re spineless. Even after Trump’s insurrection and after Biden took power, all the US branches failed to prosecute Trump and the Democrats did not hold him accountable. He regained power as a result.
The truth isn’t about who holds the seats, it’s whether or not politicians and bureaucrats have the political will. The American population have been conditioned to stick to “decorum”, even though the opponent is playing dirty and not playing by the rules. The difference is that Brazil and South Korea experienced dictatorship so they know to call a spade-- a spade. The US, hasn’t experienced dictatorship, and to be blunt, after exporting to other nations; and couldn’t tell that it’s dictatorship after throwing it and returned to the hand that threw.
it’s whether or not politicians and bureaucrats have the political will.
That and the institutions, but sure. So, why on Earth would you think that the Dems threatening to hurt American citizens will somehow change the political will/calculus?
“Those Dems are holding the government hostage… I should probably reconsider my position on trump!”
What do you actually think the Democrats are able to do right now?
A hell of a lot more than sit on their hands and ask for more donations to get people to pay them to maybe consider not sitting on their hands. They do, in fact, still hold political office and power, they could fucking use it for anything other than lining their own pockets as crisis profiteers, which is nigh the only fucking thing I see 99% of them doing.
They hold none of the three branches.
They can whine and protest, which they’ve been doing. Literally what else do you expect besides them to hold the country hostage via the debt ceiling or shutdown? (And, I might point out the Dems are in fact threatening a shutdown unless changes are made to ICE.)
They could be introducing and proposing bills, they could be voting against things rather than falling in line, they could do whatever they could to obstruct and slow things, instead they’re all just playing respectability politics and campaigning, don’t act like these capitalist fucks are looking out for anyone other than themselves. I want a little less conversation and a little more action.
Democrats have voted against almost every significant bill so far.
What would proposing bills do?
They’ve been doing the obstruction. You’ve forgotten Hakeem Jefferies’ record setting filibuster because it doesn’t make a lick of difference; “oh yay, the bill was stalled for two days! Mighty victory!”
The reality is that the Democrats are essentially powerless until the midterms and unfortunately, reality doesn’t change because you wish it were otherwise.
I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not, but do what is an opposition party is supposed to do? If Republicans love to be a thorn on the side despite being the minority in government before, by obstructionism, why can’t Democrats do the same despite having the minority?
The only major thing Republicans have been able to do is win minor concessions by threatening to effectively nuke the country. Democrats are not willing to hold the country hostage in the same manner because there are incredible consequences if the bluff is called. (A prolonged government shutdown stops poor people from eating, sick people from getting medical treatment etc. A refusal to lift the debt ceiling would place America in crippling debt and throw the world into a major financial crisis.)
During Biden’s term, Republicans looked much stronger because the Supreme court had 6 Conservatives and the Democrats only had 50 seats in the Senate which included Manchin and Sinema. The Democrats have none of that leverage this time.
Democrats are trading long term consequences for short term ones. Prolonged government shut down could do those you mentioned, but since Lemmy love the trolley problem so much, need I remind that those are short term pains compared to enabling fascism to take over later down the line? Because when have fascists ever let go of power? And I’m talking about the state of the US government now, not during Biden’s term. Democrats caving in in the previous shutdown doesn’t even look genuine. The Democratic politicians who voted with Republicans just so happened that their terms won’t be up soon, or are about to retire anyway.
Just look at other countries and the opposition parties do their job as opposition, namely in South Korea and Brazil. They are punishing insurrectionists who tried to subvert democracy. I find that Americans are sedated and still wondering if they are in fascism or not.
These actions don’t make fascism less likely though.
Fascism thrives on emergencies and suffering, taking away food and medical from millions would do this effectively.
Even worse, if the Democrats messed with the debt ceiling it would fundamentally cripple any future non fascist government’s ability to fix problems.
Good idea, look at South Korea and Brazil. They have been able to do things because the of popular legislation and/or the judiciary, not because a minority party obstructed normal legislation. That’s the exact opposite of what you are proposing. What those examples demonstrate is the importance of winning elections, not about causing havoc as the opposition party.
The then South Korean opposition wasn’t in power at the time, and yet they spearheaded the impeachment and eventual arrest and prosecution of their previous wannabe dictator, who insurrected a coup to prevent him being impeached. Brazil got lucky that their Brazilian Supreme Court was found to be corrupt and aligned with the previous authoritarian Bolsonaro, which led to the replacement of the judges. The new judges along with the other branches of government and opposition prosecuted Bolsonaro.
Brazil and SK opposition prosecuted their dictators to the fullest authority of their laws. The US? They’re spineless. Even after Trump’s insurrection and after Biden took power, all the US branches failed to prosecute Trump and the Democrats did not hold him accountable. He regained power as a result.
The truth isn’t about who holds the seats, it’s whether or not politicians and bureaucrats have the political will. The American population have been conditioned to stick to “decorum”, even though the opponent is playing dirty and not playing by the rules. The difference is that Brazil and South Korea experienced dictatorship so they know to call a spade-- a spade. The US, hasn’t experienced dictatorship, and to be blunt, after exporting to other nations; and couldn’t tell that it’s dictatorship after throwing it and returned to the hand that threw.
That and the institutions, but sure. So, why on Earth would you think that the Dems threatening to hurt American citizens will somehow change the political will/calculus?
“Those Dems are holding the government hostage… I should probably reconsider my position on trump!”