The amount of people who detransition is incredibly small compared to the overall trans population, and even then most people detransition because society didn’t accept them and battered them down until they gave up.
I mean this is ridiculous. You are basically just trying to shame me into silence because you cannot express yourself in any other way. What is that? Do you have any statement at all?
I have been nothing but calm and courteous, and you came in here and literally haven’t expressed a single cogent rational thought, only emotional outrage and dismissal.
People can be wrong about literally anything. That is not an excuse to say “fuck everyone else in this group.”
If you extend this argument, we shouldn’t believe what anyone tells us about absolutely anything because they might have made a mistake. Truly a great basis for human society.
Why would you presume that questioning someone’s beliefs would mandate to treat them like shit? What a bizarre worldview. Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness and respect, whatever they believe.
But your beliefs about the world do not dictate my beliefs about the world. That is surely not a hard concept to grasp?
Because there’s an explicit bias in your questioning. You wouldn’t question if I’m really cis-hetero, but you would question of I’m reeeeeeeeally gay or trans, even thought I’m sure there are more people who come up publicly as gay after having children than there are trans detransitioning.
This is the same as the maga mentality, where any man in a position of responsibility is accepted by default, but for women they demand justification for the role.
Isn’t there an explicit bias in your statement? I think it’s kind of relevant that the vast, vast majority of humans don’t even consider this stuff, because they take no issue with accepting that they are men or women. Is that wrong? Are people wrong to think that it’s ok to just be what you are? I genuinely don’t get it.
By far, by every metric, people are divided into men and women. There are rare exclusions, and those people should be treated just as well as everybody else. It doesn’t matter who they love or what they identify as. They are humans as every human, but it’s bizarre to demand that the totality of humanity abandon their intuitive instincts about masculinity and femininity.
I mean by your own argument, surely normal “CIS” people (whatever that means, I genuinely don’t know, I don’t keep up with ideological abbreviations) also have a right to be heterosexual women and men. Are they not allowed to believe what people have believed for literally millions of years? I find that offensive. I extend you the courtesy to believe to be whoever you wish, and I acquiesce. Surely you should be able to do the same, otherwise you’re just dictating your beliefs and demanding everybody accepts whatever it is that you say.
“CIS” people (whatever that means, I genuinely don’t know, I don’t keep up with ideological abbreviations)
Cis is a prefix. It is the opposite of trans. In this context it’s obviously an abbreviation for cisgender va transgender.
Cis means “this side,” trans means “the reverse side.” You see them used in chemistry, for example cis/trans-isomerism. Even Julius Caesar’s writings reference cisalpine Gaul and transalpine Gaul (the part of Gaul on this side of the Alps vs the part on the other side of the Alps)
Hope that helps you “keep up” with the English language.
“Wrong” is probably not the best term for it. People’s understanding of their own identity can evolve over time, but their own assessment of their sense of self will always be the most accurate barometer to go by. Yes, some people detransition, but as others have stated they’re a small minority and ultimately that’s their decision to make whether it’s due to a change in how they identify or pressure from external forces.
But to the original commenter’s point, we should just allow people to be the masters of their own identity and meet them where they are at any given point. If that were the case, the idea of getting it “wrong” wouldn’t be a big deal at all, they could simply give us an update and the world keeps turning.
That’s a completely separate discussion. We’re talking about gender dysphoria, not schizophrenia. I hope you understand why people assume you’re a troll, because what is even the point of bringing that up in this context?
What? What gives you the right to judge people you don’t know like that? You’re literally just trying to shame me into silence, you have not said a single rational thing to me, you have not met the argument, you are arguing in a thoroughly disingenuous matter because you seem incapable of interacting with people in any other way, it’s pure domination tactics and base rhetoric very much like that that is seen on the far right.
This is not a dick measuring contest. It’s a forum. For the exchange of ideas.
This is just straight up immature behavior on your part. Please try and be civil.
I think you have your numbers confused. The right wants to reduce trans numbers to 0%. The left doesn’t care about increasing numbers, only treating trans people like human beings.
Everyone should be treated with kindness and respect regardless of who they are, what they look like, where they are from, and what they believe.
That does not mean that everyone has to accept whatever beliefs anybody else personally has. Everyone is free to believe what they want. That means that it is both fine to believe something about oneself, and fine not to believe what someone else believes about themselves.
Edit: A downvote. Huh! I didn’t think someone would disagree that everyone should be treated with kindness and respect and have the right to determine for themselves what they believe. Must be a transphobe.
Then can you, please, extend your respect and kindness to not indulge the actual transphobic misinformation there? As well as not stoking the flames over a single downvote? This shit is derailing the fun thread.
You accuse me of phobia. I am not phobic in the slightest. My sister is in a loving relationship with her girlfriend since ten years back, and my little brother is literally trans.
Please do not throw out frivolous accusations just because you have your ideas challenged, it is a vile practice and only outs you as dogmatic.
No, I don’t. That was referring to the parent post.
Thanks for the lesson in not engaging in arguments unless absolutely necessary. What a fucking shit show.
You replied to me. I support equal rights and humane treatment for everyone, I simply reject the idea that your beliefs require me to surrender my own judgments about reality.
I have not been offensive in any way, you are the one resorting to domination techniques and accusations and emotional outbursts. If you don’t want to accept other people’s beliefs you can always just move along.
I guess you’d be fine if everyone treated you as a lizard and required you to live and act like a lizard. It’s all good because you know you’re not, right?
Well, people very often treat me as something I am not. They don’t know me. I don’t know me. Being human is hard. Knowing something about oneself is a very complicated proposition. Knowing something about others is even harder. What does it mean to “know oneself”? How can I expect others to know who and what I am if I can’t be certain myself?
If people thought I was a lizard I would question their sanity, for sure. Nobody in their right mind mistakes a person for a lizard. That is just crazy.
With only 1% trans, I think if we’re just willing to ACCEPT when they tell us we got it wrong, apologize and leave it at that, that would be enough.
Is it possible that any of them ever got it wrong?
The amount of people who detransition is incredibly small compared to the overall trans population, and even then most people detransition because society didn’t accept them and battered them down until they gave up.
I take that as a yes, people can be wrong about themselves and who they think they are.
Edit: My bad. Nobody can ever be wrong about themselves or their interpretation of reality. Sorry.
Wow you don’t sound like you have a prejudiced opinion at all!
Ok. Do you have an argument you would like to discuss or is it just name calling today?
That’s not a name. Also, you clearly entered into an argument just looking for any excuse to justify that opinion…
I mean this is ridiculous. You are basically just trying to shame me into silence because you cannot express yourself in any other way. What is that? Do you have any statement at all?
I have been nothing but calm and courteous, and you came in here and literally haven’t expressed a single cogent rational thought, only emotional outrage and dismissal.
Is that fair?
People can be wrong about literally anything. That is not an excuse to say “fuck everyone else in this group.”
If you extend this argument, we shouldn’t believe what anyone tells us about absolutely anything because they might have made a mistake. Truly a great basis for human society.
Why would you presume that questioning someone’s beliefs would mandate to treat them like shit? What a bizarre worldview. Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness and respect, whatever they believe.
But your beliefs about the world do not dictate my beliefs about the world. That is surely not a hard concept to grasp?
Because there’s an explicit bias in your questioning. You wouldn’t question if I’m really cis-hetero, but you would question of I’m reeeeeeeeally gay or trans, even thought I’m sure there are more people who come up publicly as gay after having children than there are trans detransitioning.
This is the same as the maga mentality, where any man in a position of responsibility is accepted by default, but for women they demand justification for the role.
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Isn’t there an explicit bias in your statement? I think it’s kind of relevant that the vast, vast majority of humans don’t even consider this stuff, because they take no issue with accepting that they are men or women. Is that wrong? Are people wrong to think that it’s ok to just be what you are? I genuinely don’t get it.
By far, by every metric, people are divided into men and women. There are rare exclusions, and those people should be treated just as well as everybody else. It doesn’t matter who they love or what they identify as. They are humans as every human, but it’s bizarre to demand that the totality of humanity abandon their intuitive instincts about masculinity and femininity.
I mean by your own argument, surely normal “CIS” people (whatever that means, I genuinely don’t know, I don’t keep up with ideological abbreviations) also have a right to be heterosexual women and men. Are they not allowed to believe what people have believed for literally millions of years? I find that offensive. I extend you the courtesy to believe to be whoever you wish, and I acquiesce. Surely you should be able to do the same, otherwise you’re just dictating your beliefs and demanding everybody accepts whatever it is that you say.
Cis is a prefix. It is the opposite of trans. In this context it’s obviously an abbreviation for cisgender va transgender.
Cis means “this side,” trans means “the reverse side.” You see them used in chemistry, for example cis/trans-isomerism. Even Julius Caesar’s writings reference cisalpine Gaul and transalpine Gaul (the part of Gaul on this side of the Alps vs the part on the other side of the Alps)
Hope that helps you “keep up” with the English language.
Well, that’s a way to go from having a bias to just plain bigotry.
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“Wrong” is probably not the best term for it. People’s understanding of their own identity can evolve over time, but their own assessment of their sense of self will always be the most accurate barometer to go by. Yes, some people detransition, but as others have stated they’re a small minority and ultimately that’s their decision to make whether it’s due to a change in how they identify or pressure from external forces.
But to the original commenter’s point, we should just allow people to be the masters of their own identity and meet them where they are at any given point. If that were the case, the idea of getting it “wrong” wouldn’t be a big deal at all, they could simply give us an update and the world keeps turning.
Does this claim extend to people who are schizophrenic?
That’s a completely separate discussion. We’re talking about gender dysphoria, not schizophrenia. I hope you understand why people assume you’re a troll, because what is even the point of bringing that up in this context?
love the transphobia to ableism pipeline. Not a great look.
What? What gives you the right to judge people you don’t know like that? You’re literally just trying to shame me into silence, you have not said a single rational thing to me, you have not met the argument, you are arguing in a thoroughly disingenuous matter because you seem incapable of interacting with people in any other way, it’s pure domination tactics and base rhetoric very much like that that is seen on the far right.
This is not a dick measuring contest. It’s a forum. For the exchange of ideas.
This is just straight up immature behavior on your part. Please try and be civil.
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I think you have your numbers confused. The right wants to reduce trans numbers to 0%. The left doesn’t care about increasing numbers, only treating trans people like human beings.
Why the fuck this joke about left wanting to turns everyone trans is not yet co-opted by the left
Everyone should be treated with kindness and respect regardless of who they are, what they look like, where they are from, and what they believe.
That does not mean that everyone has to accept whatever beliefs anybody else personally has. Everyone is free to believe what they want. That means that it is both fine to believe something about oneself, and fine not to believe what someone else believes about themselves.
Edit: A downvote. Huh! I didn’t think someone would disagree that everyone should be treated with kindness and respect and have the right to determine for themselves what they believe. Must be a transphobe.
Then can you, please, extend your respect and kindness to not indulge the actual transphobic misinformation there? As well as not stoking the flames over a single downvote? This shit is derailing the fun thread.
You accuse me of phobia. I am not phobic in the slightest. My sister is in a loving relationship with her girlfriend since ten years back, and my little brother is literally trans.
Please do not throw out frivolous accusations just because you have your ideas challenged, it is a vile practice and only outs you as dogmatic.
No, I don’t. That was referring to the parent post.
Thanks for the lesson in not engaging in arguments unless absolutely necessary. What a fucking shit show.
Pretty sure they’re actually a bot given that they nearly instantly reply and they’ve replied to almost every top-level comment in this thread.
If not, they’re just a total shithead tbh given that they talk about homosexuality being a choice elsewhere.
Thanks for the heads up. That’s good to know.
You replied to me. I support equal rights and humane treatment for everyone, I simply reject the idea that your beliefs require me to surrender my own judgments about reality.
I have not been offensive in any way, you are the one resorting to domination techniques and accusations and emotional outbursts. If you don’t want to accept other people’s beliefs you can always just move along.
I guess you’d be fine if everyone treated you as a lizard and required you to live and act like a lizard. It’s all good because you know you’re not, right?
Well, people very often treat me as something I am not. They don’t know me. I don’t know me. Being human is hard. Knowing something about oneself is a very complicated proposition. Knowing something about others is even harder. What does it mean to “know oneself”? How can I expect others to know who and what I am if I can’t be certain myself?
If people thought I was a lizard I would question their sanity, for sure. Nobody in their right mind mistakes a person for a lizard. That is just crazy.
they do?
If that means more people have a voice, then I’m all for it.