Not only do I think non-incarcerated felons should have the right to vote, I think currently incarcerated should as well. Hell, set up a voting location in the prison.
New Zealand also lets the team down by allowing medical advertising. IRC it’s the only country other than the US with prescription medical advertising.
It’s creeping into parts of the EU. I can’t remember exactly what the loophole is, something to do with not explicitly advertising the product but rather having like a sponsored message from the makers of WonderDrug™ to ask your doctor about treatment for X condition, but I’ve seen them pop up here and there. I have my doubts the EU is going to stamp it out, but I hope I’m wrong.
They’d like you to think that. Truth is there’s even less „checks and balances“ there than the already paper thin ones in the US. The courts have no teeth with the government and it’s a effectively unicameral system. Theoretically the King has executive power but he would never step in. Prisoners not being able to vote has been ruled by the courts to be against the Bill of Rights and they were just ignored.
Especially since those states are counting those prisoners among the residents in the census.
The entire fucking point is to get the benefits for those additional people, while not having to worry about them voting (likely against the people who put them there)
Important distinction, the census counts the prisoners as residents of the county in which the prison sits. The prisoners are almost always already residents of the state. It’s called prison gerrymandering, and it unfairly advantages the county and districts in which the prisons lie, almost always rural and almost always to Republican advantage.
Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but there are no non-felons in prison. But there are those in county jails awaiting trial who are not yet convicted (or will be found not guilty) of a crime, and your point is an important one.
Certainly cutting back 9 out of 10 prisons is a good idea. I don’t object to the idea that there is a certain amount of people who need to be removed for their own and the public’s safety.
But is a prison really where someone like that should go/it should be called? I would argue those people should be in a mental asylum, not what we have as prisons today (though today’s mental asylums aren’t necessarily more humane)
True, but the opposite is the case now: several times more people with mental illness resulting in or at least contributing to unwanted behavior are imprisoned than are receiving any kind of treatment.
As indicated by the fact that the most incarceration-happy country in the world continues to have a much higher rate of violence and enrichment crimes than most rich countries, the prison industrial complex doesn’t work for anyone except for the people profiting financially and electorally from its abuses.
If you want to actually reduce crime and make a better society, poverty alleviation, improving mental health services, and restorative justice is the way to go.
The current model of increasingly draconian oppression only leads to MORE crime AND more false imprisonment.
I mean, if responding to my comment about removing some people for “their own safety,” then sure, there are better places that prisons.
But really what I was saying is there are people who do and will continue to be violent toward others, and prisons probably are the right place for them.
But I’m in full agreement that the US incarcerates far far too many people that don’t fit into that description.
The justice system should, not is but should, be in the business of making things right for people who have been wronged and rehabilitating people who have done wrong, as an extension of preventing wrong from recurring, which is itself part of making things right for those wronged.
There is some theoretical minority of people who can’t be rehabilitated and don’t belong in medical treatment. There are some people where putting them in a medical facility would itself be an injustice to the staff and other patients. The vast majority of people with mental illness are perfectly safe and more likely to be the victim of a crime. Mixing them with billy mcSlapChop the worst person imaginable just creates a lot of dead people with poorly managed bipolar disorder.
The vast majority of crimes can be handled by the judge finding you guilty and then just letting you go.
I don’t think people realize how limited psychiatric hospitalizations are. If someone committed a crime because of impulsivity due to untreated mood or psychotic disorder, then a psychiatric stay would likely be appropriate. However, someone who is say psychopathic or committed a crime of passion but has no psychiatric history would get minimal to no benefit from a psych stay.
Not only do I think non-incarcerated felons should have the right to vote, I think currently incarcerated should as well. Hell, set up a voting location in the prison.
That’s how it works in most civilised countries.
I added the qualifier mainly because of New Zealand. AFAIK the country has otherwise its shit together.
New Zealand also lets the team down by allowing medical advertising. IRC it’s the only country other than the US with prescription medical advertising.
It’s creeping into parts of the EU. I can’t remember exactly what the loophole is, something to do with not explicitly advertising the product but rather having like a sponsored message from the makers of WonderDrug™ to ask your doctor about treatment for X condition, but I’ve seen them pop up here and there. I have my doubts the EU is going to stamp it out, but I hope I’m wrong.
They’d like you to think that. Truth is there’s even less „checks and balances“ there than the already paper thin ones in the US. The courts have no teeth with the government and it’s a effectively unicameral system. Theoretically the King has executive power but he would never step in. Prisoners not being able to vote has been ruled by the courts to be against the Bill of Rights and they were just ignored.
Especially since those states are counting those prisoners among the residents in the census.
The entire fucking point is to get the benefits for those additional people, while not having to worry about them voting (likely against the people who put them there)
Important distinction, the census counts the prisoners as residents of the county in which the prison sits. The prisoners are almost always already residents of the state. It’s called prison gerrymandering, and it unfairly advantages the county and districts in which the prisons lie, almost always rural and almost always to Republican advantage.
That is how it works in a democracy
In Canada, currently incarcerated people are allowed to vote by special ballot
It is legal in most states for non felons to vote from prison/jail, of course some states make it difficult.
https://campaignlegal.org/update/can-people-vote-jail-yes-its-very-challenging?__cf_chl_f_tk=KkPl7mN2_rLFSPnPAMhqNQ6qDw.KSPb0MKvhMFHfjNY-1782979983-1.0.1.1-RD7ylS0T04M.0bIdIDmnr_Kvozttp2fDFuyQJikBkkA
Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but there are no non-felons in prison. But there are those in county jails awaiting trial who are not yet convicted (or will be found not guilty) of a crime, and your point is an important one.
If we want to get too technical there are some states that place people that commit certain misdemeanors in prison as opposed to jails.
It’s not the majority, but it does happen.
https://www.ncsl.org/civil-and-criminal-justice/misdemeanor-sentencing-trends?__cf_chl_f_tk=aE1cnGu3qx2FIyq7vr3HPY2wXwrgpR2LwzXEZZRHQqY-1783008877-1.0.1.1-2gk_l8oLJVzMur4SabrsHl4NqwkhuB2x.fzAf10_EOU
Even better, let’s stop doing prisons
I’d settle for getting rid of for profit ones
Start with getting rid of private prisons, and then go from there
Certainly cutting back 9 out of 10 prisons is a good idea. I don’t object to the idea that there is a certain amount of people who need to be removed for their own and the public’s safety.
But is a prison really where someone like that should go/it should be called? I would argue those people should be in a mental asylum, not what we have as prisons today (though today’s mental asylums aren’t necessarily more humane)
Mental hospitals should be places where people with mental illnesses can go for care and treatment. They shouldn’t do double-duty as prisons.
True, but the opposite is the case now: several times more people with mental illness resulting in or at least contributing to unwanted behavior are imprisoned than are receiving any kind of treatment.
As indicated by the fact that the most incarceration-happy country in the world continues to have a much higher rate of violence and enrichment crimes than most rich countries, the prison industrial complex doesn’t work for anyone except for the people profiting financially and electorally from its abuses.
If you want to actually reduce crime and make a better society, poverty alleviation, improving mental health services, and restorative justice is the way to go.
The current model of increasingly draconian oppression only leads to MORE crime AND more false imprisonment.
Right. But there needs to be secure treatment facilities.
Something like Norway’s system is ideal imo
I mean, if responding to my comment about removing some people for “their own safety,” then sure, there are better places that prisons.
But really what I was saying is there are people who do and will continue to be violent toward others, and prisons probably are the right place for them.
But I’m in full agreement that the US incarcerates far far too many people that don’t fit into that description.
But jail has to be the last resort not the first one.
The justice system should, not is but should, be in the business of making things right for people who have been wronged and rehabilitating people who have done wrong, as an extension of preventing wrong from recurring, which is itself part of making things right for those wronged.
There is some theoretical minority of people who can’t be rehabilitated and don’t belong in medical treatment. There are some people where putting them in a medical facility would itself be an injustice to the staff and other patients. The vast majority of people with mental illness are perfectly safe and more likely to be the victim of a crime. Mixing them with billy mcSlapChop the worst person imaginable just creates a lot of dead people with poorly managed bipolar disorder.
The vast majority of crimes can be handled by the judge finding you guilty and then just letting you go.
I don’t think people realize how limited psychiatric hospitalizations are. If someone committed a crime because of impulsivity due to untreated mood or psychotic disorder, then a psychiatric stay would likely be appropriate. However, someone who is say psychopathic or committed a crime of passion but has no psychiatric history would get minimal to no benefit from a psych stay.
No, we need some prisons.